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BAD- Received Rocks vice Rockstead

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Oh, no, I DON'T place any faith in insurance, and in fact, when I sell knives I never buy insurance. If the buyer asks, I simply tell him that he's going to pay the upcharge. I'm open with any potential buyer who asks me, and (knock on wood) as far as transactions here on BF go, I've never had a knife go missing. As for the mail: every time we mail something, it's a gamble. Understand that. It just is. You are taking the chance that your merchandise is going to be lost into the ether, and that will be that. That's what kills me, even if the USPS loses the package, they still will not just pay you the insurance claim. They are going to try to find a replacement item, or else just deny the claim outright because the item in question was used, and therefore current value cannot be established. Used knives? How many times have we seen desirable knives go for more than they sold for new? Exactly.
Agree on USPS insurance. I sold a comic book that was damaged in shipment. My claim was for $45 (and I provided adequate support), but they decided to only pay me $40. No explanation was given as to why they refused the additional $5. I figured they just make a habit of denying the full amount. Note, that I did have the damaged book so there wasn't anything to dispute. I have no doubt that they will refuse to pay out in this current situation.
 
I was genuinely interested because as you know at the end of the day as a seller it comes down to purchasing insurance (which seems to be almost universally encouraged on this Site) vs self insuring. As you know in most "Bad" threads in GBU, the question of insurance or there lack of comes up and this Community in here appears to be a huge proponent. I was merely interested in the lone voices of dissent like yours and it wasn't a set up job :)
Most have not had to make a claim, so it seems like an excellent idea to purchase the insurance. It is also an indication you plan to reimburse buyers on losses. It at least gives you a chance of a refund. I have heard many complaints of people being denied what seem to me as valid claims. I have also heard of many(but not as many, but that may be due to nothing to tell ) that were paid. Regardless making a claim is going to require proof of value. They are not going to pay what you insured for unless you can prove that is the true value( which can be a problem with inflated secondary market prices). You also need to plan on jumping through many hoops with USPS before any claim will be paid. Many may give up. I have only dealt with a money order claim(package ripped open in transit and contents gone and stamped so by them) and I must spent close to 3 hours and I believe waited 90 days for payment. I would tell the story to one person and they would go to the back to never return. Another person comes out and you do it all over again. I think there were 4 in all. They paid in the end, but didn't refund the shipping they never completed.
 
You gotta think. Folks who commit crimes of opportunity, are not going to replace the contents with a bag of rocks, much less have the material and time, to tape the box back up. Either the buyer or the seller had an opportunity they thought would work out in their favor, which it did not.... Funny thing is, blame in GBU is usually established within a few posts. Here we are on page 9 of this one, and still nobody knows for sure, what happened. Well, maybe for except one person...
 
That's what kills me, even if the USPS loses the package, they still will not just pay you the insurance claim. They are going to try to find a replacement item, or else just deny the claim outright because the item in question was used, and therefore current value cannot be established.

This - this is where USPS insurance absolutely fails. You've bought insurance for a certain amount, and you paid a premium based on that declared amount. If the package doesn't arrive - and hence you have a total loss - you should get reimbursed for the total insured amount, no questions asked.

If you insure a package for $500, and they later on determine the value was only $250, do they reimburse you the extra premium you paid for that extra $250 of coverage? Doubtful.

I could see arguing over incurred losses if the item arrived damaged (e.g., how much value did you lose due to the damage?), but lost packages should be an automatic 100% reimbursement of the insured amount. And no, I don't think that would be open to abuse more so than the current approach - even today, you could put together a package designed to self-destruct or fall apart (rendering it un-deliverable), mail some rocks insured for $1000, and when they don't arrive, pull out an Amazon receipt for an iPad, saying that's actually what you actually mailed, and expect reimbursement. Either way, the only way for USPS to prove you're lying would be to find the missing package.

I actually had a similar situation come up with car insurance - State Farm had some bad data on file, and was overcharging me for 18 months. Once I got it corrected, guess what - they sent me a check for the excess premiums I had paid over those 18 months. The fact that USPS is willing to accept premiums for the customer's valuation of the item, but then argue about it when they need to pay out, is an absolute scam.

/end rant
 
You gotta think. Folks who commit crimes of opportunity, are not going to replace the contents with a bag of rocks, much less have the material and time, to tape the box back up. Either the buyer or the seller had an opportunity they thought would work out in their favor, which it did not.... Funny thing is, blame in GBU is usually established within a few posts. Here we are on page 9 of this one, and still nobody knows for sure, what happened. Well, maybe for except one person...
I think only the mail carriers would have the time.
I may have missed it, but was this delivered directly by USPS to the buyer or did it go through some military hands?
One problem with the insurance is the postage can give away the value of the object
 
This is like an episode of Poirot. For every clue offered there is a counterpoint. Will we ever find out what happened to the MacGuffin?

You gotta think. Folks who commit crimes of opportunity, are not going to replace the contents with a bag of rocks, much less have the material and time, to tape the box back up. Either the buyer or the seller had an opportunity they thought would work out in their favor, which it did not.... Funny thing is, blame in GBU is usually established within a few posts. Here we are on page 9 of this one, and still nobody knows for sure, what happened. Well, maybe for except one person...

I think it is more likely that an experienced and skilled criminal working a gig at the USPS would have one or more strategems at the ready to fool the postal system and make identifying them much harder to detect. A tiny pocket scale, some generic rocks, and you can instantly match the original package weight to the gram or 1/10 ounce in seconds, and send an empty, insured, high value package on its way minus the contents. i am curious how much the weight on the package differs from the received weight. This case can be solved by a postal inspector.

I am going to make a wild prediction - assuming a USPS insurance claim is made, and assuming both buyer and seller cooperate with the claims process and submit the necessary statements, the item will be located by the USPS and little or no explanation will be provided.

If any of the parties refuse to participate in making a claim, then perhaps a 3rd party is not responsible?
 
I think only the mail carriers would have the time.
I may have missed it, but was this delivered directly by USPS to the buyer or did it go through some military hands?
One problem with the insurance is the postage can give away the value of the object
Seriously. I've never enjoyed that part of insurance either. I mean, a small flat rate priority box that's insured for $800? Psssh, no reason for me to open THAT box here in the distro center and steal its contents, it's probably just some socks or something, right? :rolleyes:
 
Seriously. I've never enjoyed that part of insurance either. I mean, a small flat rate priority box that's insured for $800? Psssh, no reason for me to open THAT box here in the distro center and steal its contents, it's probably just some socks or something, right? :rolleyes:
There used to be a box you could check when printing the label so the postage value wasn't on it, but I didn't see the option on the last thing I shipped out...
 
What's the point for USPS to even have the option of displaying the paid insurance fee on the box? So that its good workers know which packages are more valuable and hence handle more carefully? Or so that its bad workers know which ones to steal?
 
This is why many pass on using USPS. I work with high-end merchandise (automobile price range), and that stuff NEVER goes with USPS under any circumstances. (I do use USPS for inexpensive things (under $100) that I won’t cry a river if they go missing or where the seller will only use USPS and I absolutely need the item—usually the retailer is in a position to make good on the deal if USPS fails, i.e., not a private sale.
 
Seriously. I've never enjoyed that part of insurance either. I mean, a small flat rate priority box that's insured for $800? Psssh, no reason for me to open THAT box here in the distro center and steal its contents, it's probably just some socks or something, right? :rolleyes:
That's like when I shipped my wife's engagement ring back to the maker to replace some stones, bought the insurance and paid up the wazoo for it to have all kinds of tracking annnnd it disappears a day later. USPS says they don't know where it is but are sure it will arrive safely. Two days go by and nothing.

A call to the regional postmaster and a postal inspector and magically they find it the next day.
 
EurAzn12 EurAzn12 did you or could you weigh the box, packing paper and bag of rocks?
USPS would have a record of the shipped weight.
 
I came across a really good deal on another Rockstead and just as soon as I was about to even consider it I remembered this thread.
 
The only person insurance is paid put to is the shipper since they paid for it, not the buyer.

Personally I'd be suspect of the postal carrier. Someone mentioned the tape not being tampered with. But you don't know it was even shipped with tape to begin with.

I'm not defending the seller/shipper, but I can't imagine why they'd put their return address (assuming its legit) on the front and put tape over both names to protect them in shipment. I mean, if you actually sent rocks, why would you care if the shipping address was protected, it would actually benefit you if it wasn't delivered or was lost...right?

Pretty crazy all around.


Mail fraud?
 
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