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There was also a lot of evidence to say, um, no and I do believe at least one apology issued.
Brands to stay away from
- Thread starter Weasipoint
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There was also a lot of evidence to say, um, no and I do believe at least one apology issued.
000Robert
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Yes, it does. And it tells me other things as well...
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Cliffs on the ZT/BF thing?
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Eh, live and learn. I bought a Brous when I was early into collecting (BTW I'd advise that you don't do that).
Thomas Welk, their sales manager, is an asshole - to put it mildly.
They had him as well as another guy on the forum and every time someone would question any minute detail or issue about a ZT it would immediately turn to “well you’re stupid and know nothing”...their USN forum is pretty much the same except the members go along with it.
Eventually the plug was pulled on their sub forum here, I believe in 2015 or so.
As to the steel issues, their S35VN has been tested soft and performed very poorly in cut tests in comparison to other brands S35VN. Their 20CV is fine but not high hardness.
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There are exceptions to every rule but the "gun company" advice is sound. For instance, Smith and Wesson had a Fourth of July special. You could get a free knife with the purchase of one of their handguns. It took a few minutes to identify the knife but it was a Smith and Wesson Oasis. It's made of "reliable" 7Cr17Mov and features a tip-down-only deep-carry clip. (Don't worry. If you missed the special, you can get an Oasis on BladeHQ for like thirteen bucks.)
As far as all those Chinese brands, it really depends on the individual company. For instance, Eafengrow is pretty bad. They are known for copying designs and have been caught putting false "D2" stamps on 8Cr and 5Cr. OTOH, Bestech makes a really nice knife. There has been some independent confirmation for Bestech's Chinese D2. In my experience with a few models now, Bestech's Chinese D2 is okay. The actions have been excellent on the Bestechs I've owned. They also have a US rep and warranty support. I requested a spare back spacer for my Texel. Shipping took a while but they sent it free of charge.
Like most branded merchandise, "gun company knives" are very dependent on who actually makes them:
AVOID: Smith & Wesson knives, including the M&P ones, have been made by Taylor Cutlery (which includes the Shrade, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, and Imperial brands) for a long time, and S&W actually bought them out in 2016. The feedback on their S&W and Schrade lines is generally poor to mediocre, with Schrade occasionally producing some decent budget fixed blades. Remington-branded knives have been made by Bear & Sons exclusively since 2015. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, B&S has had some issues with providing the steel they advertise (I doubt this affects the $10 Remington folders too much).
OKAY: The Ruger line by CRKT is acceptable for the budget end of the spectrum (the now-discontinued LCK was actually very well regarded among budget knives). The H&K line, made by Hogue, as well as Hogue's own stuff, is as good as anything any other American-made mainstream production company puts out. Hogue has also made stuff for Wilson Tactical, which is an arm of Wilson Combat.
IT DEPENDS: Browning has a bunch of manufacturers that make their knives, so quality varies by model. They have a bunch of cheap knives made by nameless Chinese companies that are pretty garbage. They have used Buck, TOPS, and Mcusta, who make good knives.
OKAY: The Ruger line by CRKT is acceptable for the budget end of the spectrum (the now-discontinued LCK was actually very well regarded among budget knives). The H&K line, made by Hogue, as well as Hogue's own stuff, is as good as anything any other American-made mainstream production company puts out. Hogue has also made stuff for Wilson Tactical, which is an arm of Wilson Combat.
IT DEPENDS: Browning has a bunch of manufacturers that make their knives, so quality varies by model. They have a bunch of cheap knives made by nameless Chinese companies that are pretty garbage. They have used Buck, TOPS, and Mcusta, who make good knives.
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Well
Weasipoint
you can see people have many opinions on the matter so mostly buy what suits you read through this thread and peoples opinions, and facts or lack of as to why they formed such opinions and use that to form your own opinion.
I will say I personally love many of the Italian made knives and own a few LionSteel, Viper, & Maserin knives and the concerns over LionSteel were largely found to be a one off issue or an issue in testing methodology from what I recall.
For what I avoid I will list below brands or groups I avoid and why
General No buy list:
Chinese made: yes all including WE and Reate dispite the quality and generally upstanding appearance of some companies for primarily political based reasons I avoid them for myself. I will add that I have no problem recommending the well made options to others who don't share my view of why not to buy any Chinese made products. I also respect what the good Chinese companies are doing and hope to see more progress like that.
Carbon Steel: I only want to own stainless steel knives for my own personal reasons which is frustrating at time due to some great options released with only carbon steel blades.
Won't buy list:
Gerber: Nothing but quality issues in the past for me and they made it to the list and mostly Chinese made
Strider: The man behind the name represents so much that no matter how good the product may be no dime should go in his direction and this includes collaborations with respected makers/manufacturers
Rockstead: Lovely knives I want one but at the price and with the current thread about issues with their warranty I can't justify one and certainly not at those prices.
Benchmade: With their history of QC issues and their political fiasco a little while back I put them onto this list.
Case: Love many of their designs but ultimately I find their steel too soft and the fit & finish lacking too often. I say if neither of those are issues for you then buy all the Case knives you like
Ganzo: IP thieves who are showing some signs of righting the ship but no where near the point to consider them as an option.
Microtech/Marfione: The man behind it has been shown as something of a dbag along with all Microtech auto's having horribly stiff triggers I find no reason to buy one with so many options available.
Quatermaster: Despite the country of origin issue the owner of that company had shown to be blown so much smoke around every aspect of that business he just came off sleazy that alone was enough reason to steer clear.
I might buy if no one makes an alternative:
Victorinox: Same steel issue as with Case but at least at a reasonable price point and still often a leader in their space.
My list is subject to change as I remember things to add or say.
Weasipoint
you can see people have many opinions on the matter so mostly buy what suits you read through this thread and peoples opinions, and facts or lack of as to why they formed such opinions and use that to form your own opinion.I will say I personally love many of the Italian made knives and own a few LionSteel, Viper, & Maserin knives and the concerns over LionSteel were largely found to be a one off issue or an issue in testing methodology from what I recall.
For what I avoid I will list below brands or groups I avoid and why
General No buy list:
Chinese made: yes all including WE and Reate dispite the quality and generally upstanding appearance of some companies for primarily political based reasons I avoid them for myself. I will add that I have no problem recommending the well made options to others who don't share my view of why not to buy any Chinese made products. I also respect what the good Chinese companies are doing and hope to see more progress like that.
Carbon Steel: I only want to own stainless steel knives for my own personal reasons which is frustrating at time due to some great options released with only carbon steel blades.
Won't buy list:
Gerber: Nothing but quality issues in the past for me and they made it to the list and mostly Chinese made
Strider: The man behind the name represents so much that no matter how good the product may be no dime should go in his direction and this includes collaborations with respected makers/manufacturers
Rockstead: Lovely knives I want one but at the price and with the current thread about issues with their warranty I can't justify one and certainly not at those prices.
Benchmade: With their history of QC issues and their political fiasco a little while back I put them onto this list.
Case: Love many of their designs but ultimately I find their steel too soft and the fit & finish lacking too often. I say if neither of those are issues for you then buy all the Case knives you like
Ganzo: IP thieves who are showing some signs of righting the ship but no where near the point to consider them as an option.
Microtech/Marfione: The man behind it has been shown as something of a dbag along with all Microtech auto's having horribly stiff triggers I find no reason to buy one with so many options available.
Quatermaster: Despite the country of origin issue the owner of that company had shown to be blown so much smoke around every aspect of that business he just came off sleazy that alone was enough reason to steer clear.
I might buy if no one makes an alternative:
Victorinox: Same steel issue as with Case but at least at a reasonable price point and still often a leader in their space.
My list is subject to change as I remember things to add or say.
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I have a lot of respect for the way you stated your objection to Chinese knives. Thanks for sharing that.
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Dogdrawz
I will admit they have more recently begun to become of interest again but I will wait for crowds to cry their praise I think.
Hackenslash
thank you I understand it is something some might take issue with so it is appreciated when people acknowledged it without lashing back.
That was a great way to state how I feel. Thanks for posting it.
Why am I even jumping into this dumpster fire.....
I’ve skimmed through the posts here at the best, but I’ll tighten my belt and just jump in
I stay away from Gerber, CRKT and Smith &Wesson.No if’s ands or but’s. I also don’t eat Ramen noodles (at least not anymore)
I stay away from anything Pakistan.
Emerson...? I keep getting disappointed with what I consider too soft of steel (done that way on purpose for ease of sharpening in the field yada yada). I keep buying the damn things over the years though because I just really like the designs. Been EDC’ing a mini CQC7 the last 10 months ruthlessly and I’m on the fence about it. It took over the spot of my Para3 and I have to say that Para was an incredible EDC blade. Now with that said....
I hate S30V. Always have since its inception. Juice has just never been worth the squeeze for me. (Insert here where I’m told I’m not a sharpening wizard), whatever. So I’m more about blade steel and heat treat than I am maker. Personal preferences.
Strider....
I have two Stiders, or Berger’s, or whatever, that I’ve owned since before a lot of the facts came out. Great construction (wish they weren’t S30V).
Some love him. Some hate him. Other ppls emotions don’t sway my opinions. I could take it or leave it in regards to that brand. Prob a bit over priced tho but what isn’t nowadays. My Chevy buddies pick on me for driving Toyota’s bc they aren’t ‘Merican. I’m out to get the best “tool” and reliability for my buck. May the best manufacturer win.
I have many other brands I’ve yet to ring out but these are my ramblings as of tonight.
I’ve skimmed through the posts here at the best, but I’ll tighten my belt and just jump in
I stay away from Gerber, CRKT and Smith &Wesson.No if’s ands or but’s. I also don’t eat Ramen noodles (at least not anymore)
I stay away from anything Pakistan.
Emerson...? I keep getting disappointed with what I consider too soft of steel (done that way on purpose for ease of sharpening in the field yada yada). I keep buying the damn things over the years though because I just really like the designs. Been EDC’ing a mini CQC7 the last 10 months ruthlessly and I’m on the fence about it. It took over the spot of my Para3 and I have to say that Para was an incredible EDC blade. Now with that said....
I hate S30V. Always have since its inception. Juice has just never been worth the squeeze for me. (Insert here where I’m told I’m not a sharpening wizard), whatever. So I’m more about blade steel and heat treat than I am maker. Personal preferences.
Strider....
I have two Stiders, or Berger’s, or whatever, that I’ve owned since before a lot of the facts came out. Great construction (wish they weren’t S30V).
Some love him. Some hate him. Other ppls emotions don’t sway my opinions. I could take it or leave it in regards to that brand. Prob a bit over priced tho but what isn’t nowadays. My Chevy buddies pick on me for driving Toyota’s bc they aren’t ‘Merican. I’m out to get the best “tool” and reliability for my buck. May the best manufacturer win.
I have many other brands I’ve yet to ring out but these are my ramblings as of tonight.
Strider: 60% handle + 35% choil + 5% Creative Writing = $400 price tag.
Hinderer: Same template (18/24) knife, then buy different scales and hardware to play dress-up. MBA course-worthy Barbie doll business strategy.
Shirogorov: 1. Pick random Spyderco leaf blade. 2. Pick random Cold Steel handle shape. 3. Add framelock and bearings. 4. Add $800 to price tag.
Ganzo: IP swipers.
Reate: WE, but double the blade stock and price.
Manly: Spyderco Delica sample platter
Civivi: Somehow they got us to pay premium for G-10/D2 now. Brous must be fuming now.
Quartermaster: I've been to their museum.
Zinker: Allergic to curves. If this was a dating site you'd be reported for misogyny.
Benchmade: A worthy maker if everything was $50 cheaper. What do you call a 940-1 that slices better, has stronger lock springs, is as light and half-price? Manix 2 LW.
Chris Reeve: Riding the same one trick grayscale pony for decades.
Zero Tolerance: Only useful for when another company/maker can't make a quality product.
Emerson: See Zero Tolerance.
SOG: Soggy cereal trying to stay afloat in the domestic milk bowl.
Kabar: SOG, except I can actually identify the important military knife.
Victorinox: Most impressive company on this list, considering any model you buy is at most 33% knife.
Spyderco: Blade to handle ratio and designs makes Wonka blush.
CRKT: *Yawn*
Gerber: See CRKT
Buck: See Gerber + 110
Rockstead: You'll cry when you pay the bill. Then cry again when your tears scratch up the mirror polish. Then again when the warranty doesn't cover the mistakes of your second sob.
Moki: Apparently a bar of Aus8 costs them $100.
Custom Knife Factory: When your financial advisor says to just get a Kevin John or Green Thorn, but you don't want to be judged.
Case: Jelly beans of knives. Old fashioned and colorful and novel, but deep down you know they all taste the same.
Boker: See Buck - 110
Kizer: As someone who fell asleep a lot in European history class, I can still name more actual Kaisers than Kizer models.
Todd Begg: The Simpson's "speed holes" joke was supposed to be ironic.
Isham Designs: Someone tried to impress a girl at the bar by designing all their knives using a ruler and bottom of a shot-glass.
James Brand: Grandma fell over and got a new hip, and you still have more hip than her.
TwoSun: I literally saw your logo in a COVID19 documentary.
Artisan Cutlery: I literally saw your logo in a WWII documentary.
Real Steel: I hope so too.
Grimsmo: Leave it to two Canadians to rub in their healthcare by selling us $800 finger guillotines.
Gareth Bull: How to make a Shamwari.
1. Buy a Sebenza and take handle.
2. Buy a Sage and take blade.
3. JB Weld fill the hole.
4. Sell on Instagram at exactly 3 AM.
5. Don't respond when your customer says the JB Weld came off.
Rike: Once upon a time, a meth head tweaked their way into a machine shop. Then Rike was born.
Giant Mouse: Vox/Anso decide to rehash all of the designs they left behind in Maniago. Better use them all up before Ganzo stops by.
Cold Steel: Their pig slicing videos are really good and entertaining, frankly.
Edit: Added other knives that I own(ed).
Hinderer: Same template (18/24) knife, then buy different scales and hardware to play dress-up. MBA course-worthy Barbie doll business strategy.
Shirogorov: 1. Pick random Spyderco leaf blade. 2. Pick random Cold Steel handle shape. 3. Add framelock and bearings. 4. Add $800 to price tag.
Ganzo: IP swipers.
Reate: WE, but double the blade stock and price.
Manly: Spyderco Delica sample platter
Civivi: Somehow they got us to pay premium for G-10/D2 now. Brous must be fuming now.
Quartermaster: I've been to their museum.
Zinker: Allergic to curves. If this was a dating site you'd be reported for misogyny.
Benchmade: A worthy maker if everything was $50 cheaper. What do you call a 940-1 that slices better, has stronger lock springs, is as light and half-price? Manix 2 LW.
Chris Reeve: Riding the same one trick grayscale pony for decades.
Zero Tolerance: Only useful for when another company/maker can't make a quality product.
Emerson: See Zero Tolerance.
SOG: Soggy cereal trying to stay afloat in the domestic milk bowl.
Kabar: SOG, except I can actually identify the important military knife.
Victorinox: Most impressive company on this list, considering any model you buy is at most 33% knife.
Spyderco: Blade to handle ratio and designs makes Wonka blush.
CRKT: *Yawn*
Gerber: See CRKT
Buck: See Gerber + 110
Rockstead: You'll cry when you pay the bill. Then cry again when your tears scratch up the mirror polish. Then again when the warranty doesn't cover the mistakes of your second sob.
Moki: Apparently a bar of Aus8 costs them $100.
Custom Knife Factory: When your financial advisor says to just get a Kevin John or Green Thorn, but you don't want to be judged.
Case: Jelly beans of knives. Old fashioned and colorful and novel, but deep down you know they all taste the same.
Boker: See Buck - 110
Kizer: As someone who fell asleep a lot in European history class, I can still name more actual Kaisers than Kizer models.
Todd Begg: The Simpson's "speed holes" joke was supposed to be ironic.
Isham Designs: Someone tried to impress a girl at the bar by designing all their knives using a ruler and bottom of a shot-glass.
James Brand: Grandma fell over and got a new hip, and you still have more hip than her.
TwoSun: I literally saw your logo in a COVID19 documentary.
Artisan Cutlery: I literally saw your logo in a WWII documentary.
Real Steel: I hope so too.
Grimsmo: Leave it to two Canadians to rub in their healthcare by selling us $800 finger guillotines.
Gareth Bull: How to make a Shamwari.
1. Buy a Sebenza and take handle.
2. Buy a Sage and take blade.
3. JB Weld fill the hole.
4. Sell on Instagram at exactly 3 AM.
5. Don't respond when your customer says the JB Weld came off.
Rike: Once upon a time, a meth head tweaked their way into a machine shop. Then Rike was born.
Giant Mouse: Vox/Anso decide to rehash all of the designs they left behind in Maniago. Better use them all up before Ganzo stops by.
Cold Steel: Their pig slicing videos are really good and entertaining, frankly.
Edit: Added other knives that I own(ed).
Last edited:
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We really need to add the golf clap emoji.
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