Female hiker lost or abducted?

It goes back to Jeff Cooper's codes of awareness and basic recognition of dangers.
It goes back to Jeff Cooper's codes of awareness and basic recognition of dangers

Very true and very unfortunate. I saw Rusty Dornin and Heidi something discussing this case on Al Jazeera west this morning. Both were saying that they are avid hikers and that they had both often gone alone but would not do so again. That is extremely sad to me. Would that they had discussed going armed instead.
 
In spite of what many in the backpacking community wish to believe, violence in the backcountry seems to be on the upswing.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/277599_hikers15ww.html

Situational awareness is more important than ever not only in cities but now in the backcountry, IMHO.

One incident in 2006 doesn't an upswing make.

Furthermore, the article states that park attendance is up 15% since 2000. No information on rates of violence at all.

Violence in backcountry areas may indeed be on the upswing. But this article doesn't indicate thus.
 
One incident in 2006 doesn't an upswing make.

Furthermore, the article states that park attendance is up 15% since 2000. No information on rates of violence at all.

Violence in backcountry areas may indeed be on the upswing. But this article doesn't indicate thus.

It only takes one time to ruin your day.
Why should any American ever need to leave his safety in someone else's hands?
Ever?
National park or not?
We own the parks.
It's unconstitutional to ban firearms in the park.
Prosecute poachers and leave the rest of us alone to protect ourselves and our families.
 
It's unconstitutional to ban firearms in the park.

I suspect that D.C. v. Heller will cause the 2A to be recognized an individual right. If that happens, then shortly thereafter I expect a lot of federal firearm laws to be challenged, including the ban on carrying firearms in National Parks/Monuments/etc.

It's probably a few years away, but in time those bans should go away.

That said, a firearm is not a magic wand. If you walk around completely oblivious to the dangers in your environment, you can still be had. It doesn't matter if you're going for a stroll in the city or the wilderness, you need to keep your eyes open and watch what's coming up from behind you.

At least 90% of my hiking experience is solo. I'm not going to stop doing that just because there are bad people in the woods. Rather, I'm just going to be that much more careful when I go out, given that there are known dangers out there.
 
It only takes one time to ruin your day.
Why should any American ever need to leave his safety in someone else's hands?
Ever?
National park or not?
We own the parks.

I don't really disagree. However my point over Codger_64's post still stands. It still hasn't been a demonstrated that there's been a significant rise, if any, in the rates of victimization in the backcountry.

It's unconstitutional to ban firearms in the park.
Prosecute poachers and leave the rest of us alone to protect ourselves and our families.

No, it's not unconstitutional until the court says it is.

I'm less optimistic than bulgron. I don't think a favorable ruling on D.C. v Heller will change much, except in the most draconian jurisdictions, such as NY and Chicago.

At least 90% of my hiking experience is solo. I'm not going to stop doing that just because there are bad people in the woods. Rather, I'm just going to be that much more careful when I go out, given that there are known dangers out there.

I think a good point to be made is that there have always been bad people in the woods. I'm just skeptical that they are any more active now than in the past.
 
I have no statistical evidence that victimization in the woods has increased. I started the two legged snake thread because of a warning from an LEO and a BOLO posted on the gate of the WMA I frequent for a suspect vehicle in several tire slashings that took place there.

I can say without a doubt that the number of people who frequent this area has increased greatly as five years ago it was rare to see another human there except during hunting season. Also, the trails are littered with used condoms, douches and what seems like miles of plastic insulation stripped from presumably stolen copper wire. This combination of facts would seem to logically point to a likely higher incidence of possible victims meeting possible perpetrators. That being said however, I do believe that one or two incidents can create a perception of higher crime rates. Kind of like when you get a new vehicle, you suddenly start to notice a lot more of your type vehicle though the numbers have not increased.

As sad as all this is maybe the increased awareness of possible problems in the woods will be a positive thing. As an ex LEO myself and a proponent of Col. Coopers condition yellow at all times I should have known better but the woods have always lulled me into a sense of relaxation. I hope that will continue albeit with a heightened awareness. I'm sure as hell not about to let the bastards run me or my family out of the woods.
 
I'm less optimistic than bulgron. I don't think a favorable ruling on D.C. v Heller will change much, except in the most draconian jurisdictions, such as NY and Chicago.

Just to be clear, all by itself Heller won't change very much. However, any ruling that clearly identifies the 2A as an individual right is an important and necessary corner stone to future litigation seeking to overturn bad gun laws. Since 1939, U.S. governments from the city to the federal level have used the broken argument that the 2A protects a collective right in order to justify continuing firearm laws. Heller is, more than anything else, about clarifying that the 2A is an individual right.

Once we have that settled, we can go ahead and argue about, for example, how come the park service thinks they can ban firearms from our parks when the amendment clearly says "shall not be infringed." But all of that requires litigation beyond Heller itself.
 
Bulgron & Shecky -

Even if Heller goes the way we're hoping it will, we will still have to face an incorporation battle. Constitutional protection of individual rights originally only restricted the Federal government, not the seperately soverign states. The Court has (wrongly) selectively incorporated most of the rest of the Bill of Rights but I'm skeptical that the momentum exists to add the 2nd Amendment to the list.

-- FLIX
 
Bulgron & Shecky -

Even if Heller goes the way we're hoping it will, we will still have to face an incorporation battle. Constitutional protection of individual rights originally only restricted the Federal government, not the seperately soverign states. The Court has (wrongly) selectively incorporated most of the rest of the Bill of Rights but I'm skeptical that the momentum exists to add the 2nd Amendment to the list.

-- FLIX

Incorporation is not needed to stop the National Park Service from banning guns from the parks. Incorporation is only necessary in order to apply the 2A to city, county and state jurisdictions.

Also, something like 45 states have RKBA protections in their state constitutions and for many of those states the fight over the 2A is irrelevant because their own constitutions already protect the individual right. All Heller does is prevent the feds from passing more gun control legislation, such as the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban. However, there are a few states where the state constitutional RKBA protections have been interpreted to be a collective right (MA, for example). For those states, 2A incorporation is very important.

Some few states (such as California) have no explicit 2A provision in their state constitution, and for most of these states 2A incorporation is critical. However, California is a bit odd in that it has Article III, Section I which explicitly acknowledges the U.S. Constitution as the supreme law of the land. So for California, all we really need is for SCOTUS to declare the 2A to be an individual right and we're off to the races.

By the way, there are plenty of people out there who think that if SCOTUS comes down on our side of this fight, then incorporation will be trivial to achieve in Son of Heller (whatever that turns out to be).
 
Incorporation is not needed to stop the National Park Service from banning guns from the parks. Incorporation is only necessary in order to apply the 2A to city, county and state jurisdictions.

Also, something like 45 states have RKBA protections in their state constitutions and for many of those states the fight over the 2A is irrelevant because their own constitutions already protect the individual right. All Heller does is prevent the feds from passing more gun control legislation, such as the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban. However, there are a few states where the state constitutional RKBA protections have been interpreted to be a collective right (MA, for example). For those states, 2A incorporation is very important.

Some few states (such as California) have no explicit 2A provision in their state constitution, and for most of these states 2A incorporation is critical. However, California is a bit odd in that it has Article III, Section I which explicitly acknowledges the U.S. Constitution as the supreme law of the land. So for California, all we really need is for SCOTUS to declare the 2A to be an individual right and we're off to the races.

By the way, there are plenty of people out there who think that if SCOTUS comes down on our side of this fight, then incorporation will be trivial to achieve in Son of Heller (whatever that turns out to be).


Bulgron,

Good points, but I thinks we would see some "time, place, manner" restrictions inevitably crop up. (One would hope that such would not extend to the National Parks, but look at how states have restricted concealed carry.)

In respect to California, I doubt that their courts would support such an application of their state constitution. Yielding to a Federal individual right applicable only to the Federal government, does not logically follow from their written acknowledgement of the primacy of the US Constitution. (This is really nothing more than a jusrisprudential reacharound, as the US Constitution is as much the supreme law of the land in the other 49 as it is in California.) Is there precedent? Given the state of the judicial system in California, anything is possible.

-- FLIX
 
I believe that when the Statistics for solo hiking or fishing deaths per trips taken come in that they will be far better than for Skydiving and or even Ultralight Flying things not normally described as foolish or insane in the news media. Yes you need to properly prepared to go anywhere by yourself, but that does not mean that you should not travel alone in the backcountry.

Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net
 
You guys may be right. I may just be seeing the appearance of an increase in backcountry crime.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/08/national/main765404.shtml

Hmm... a more up to date story might suffice. And one with actual statistics would be even better.

The problem with the story is that everything is unsubstantiated. It reads like what it is, a press release from a special interest group making a case for it's constituents.

A similarly themed story can be found here.

This one is a little more balanced, it acknowledges that the USFS and NPS don't keep particularly stringent crime statistics, and that violent crimes such as the one you posted initially (and similar to the OP), are still quite rare in national parks and forests.

Show me some statistics demonstrating the backcountry is an especially dangerous place to be.

BruceZed said:
I believe that when the Statistics for solo hiking or fishing deaths per trips taken come in that they will be far better than for Skydiving and or even Ultralight Flying things not normally described as foolish or insane in the news media. Yes you need to properly prepared to go anywhere by yourself, but that does not mean that you should not travel alone in the backcountry.

I suspect such statistics would be better than the victimization rates occurring in the everyday life in the average town. Which are already pretty low.
 
I believe that when the Statistics for solo hiking or fishing deaths per trips taken come in that they will be far better than for Skydiving and or even Ultralight Flying things not normally described as foolish or insane in the news media. Yes you need to properly prepared to go anywhere by yourself, but that does not mean that you should not travel alone in the backcountry.

Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

Bruce- Stats for those activities aside, the law enforcement community has been noting the shift of crime and criminals from urban areas into rural areas for several years. This is especially true in Arizona and other western states. Arizona is a special case with drug trafficking and human smuggling in the southern part of the state. Even hunters are leery about using these areas. It is a war zone.

This discussion has focused on the obvious dangers of women traveling alone in back country and the consensus is that they shouldn't. I agree.

But they will continue to despite stories like this. They need to be suitably equipped and mentally prepared to deal with these threats.

GB
 
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/01/07/missing_0108_web2.html

Body of missing Buford hiker found

By JEFFRY SCOTT, GEORGE CHIDI
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/07/08

The body of Buford hiker Meredith Emerson, missing since New Year's Day in the North Georgia mountains, has been found by authorities, her family's spokeswoman confirmed Monday night.

"We did find out just now, not that it was unexpected," Peggy Bailey said.

She did not confirm exactly where the body was found but said, "I know it was a place where they have been looking."

As search parties continued with a sixth day of scouring the mountains for Emerson, the man suspected of killing her faced a judge but made no comment.

Although the father of the young hiker went before cameras Monday to ask the public to "search their hearts and memories" for anything that might lead to his daughter, attorneys said that even if searchers had never found her body, Gary Michael Hilton still could have been charged with her murder.

Hilton was charged Saturday with kidnapping with bodily injury, felonies that carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

Enotah Judicial Circuit District Attorney Stan Gunter said he expects Hilton will seek an insanity defense, based on what Hilton's court-appointed attorney said in a hearing Monday afternoon before a Union County magistrate judge.

During the 10-minute hearing before Judge Johnie Garmon in a courtroom packed with spectators and the press, Hilton, 61 — appearing stern-faced and almost frail — did not respond to questions from the judge.

He deferred to his court-appointed public defender, Neil Smith, who told judge Garmon that Hilton was not prepared to comment.

When asked afterward by reporters whether Hilton would plead insanity, Gunter said based on what Hilton's attorney said — and what Hilton did not say — "I would expect they would, but I don't know what they are going to do." Gunter declined to say specifically what those comments were.

The search for evidence of Emerson's whereabouts stretched from the mountains of North Georgia to DeKalb County. She was last seen in Vogel State Park about 10 miles south of Blairsville in Union County, walking with Hilton on New Year's Day. He was arrested Friday night after a passer-by spotted him cleaning out his van on Ashford-Dunwoody Road in DeKalb County.

The search also included the area around the Dumpster in the parking lot of a Forsyth County QuikTrip where her blood-stained clothes, wallet, Georgia driver's license and University of Georgia ID were found by Forsyth County Sheriff's Office investigators Friday afternoon.

Emerson's black lab dog, Ella, was found across the street, wandering through the parking lot of a Kroger on Ga. 20.

Emerson's parents, who flew in from Colorado last week to help in the seach, met briefly with reporters at Vogel State Park Monday afternoon. They had her dog with them.

Emerson's mother, Susan Emerson, said they wanted to bring the dog out so that people would know Ella was all right. The dog turned a year old Dec. 30. "We're hoping that these images will help keep Meredith in people's minds," she said.

Asked how they doing: "We're holding up," said Dave Emerson, Meredith's father.

The parents had been staying in a cabin at the state park, but the family spokeswoman said they were leaving Monday. It wasn't clear whether they would be staying elsewhere.

Officials sent out 10 teams of searchers Monday. They again focused on a five-square-mile area near where Emerson was last seen.

The case still holds national attention. The parking lot of the Union County courthouse in Blairsville was crowed with TV trucks from local stations and network affiliates as reporters and cameramen gathered outside for the 2 p.m. hearing.

About 45 spectators filled the small courtroom. Before Hilton entered through a side door with sheriff's deputies, he could be heard telling Union County Sheriff Scott Stephens that he had been treated well since he was brought to the jail Saturday night.

"They got me three blankets and they're taking good care of me," said Hilton, whose only other comment was at the end of the hearing when he turned to his attorney and said "Thank you." His attorney declined to comment on the case before the hearing and could not be reached afterward.

Gail Lynn, 64, of Blairsville, one of the spectators who lined up early to get a seat in the courtroom, said afterwards she was shocked by Hilton's appearance. "He really looked like somebody who would not be capable of such a thing," she said. "He didn't think he looked like a predator. But I still think he did it."

District Attorney Gunter said Hilton had been appointed an attorney in the hope that he might cooperate with investigators. But so far, after three days in custody, he has not cooperated, said GBI spokesman John Bankhead Monday.

Gunter declined to say whether more evidence has been found since Hilton was charged Saturday night based on three bloody fleece garments, believed to be Emerson's, found in a dumpster outside a Quik Trip in Forsyth County, along with Emerson's wallet, her Georgia Driver's license and University of Georgia ID card.

Hilton was arrested about five hours later when – acting on two phone tips – DeKalb Police found him at a business on Ashford Dunwoody Rd. Friday night allegedly attempting to vacuum his van.

Union County Sheriff Scott Stephens said after the Monday hearing his office has gotten "thousands" of phone calls from the public saying they had seen Hilton moving about in north Georgia, apparently living in his van.

"It's our belief he travels around to remote counties," said Stephens. "We've had all kinds of calls from people saying 'I remember seeing him.' He's a drifter. He kind of moves around." DeKalb County police said his vehicle has been registered to two addresses in DeKalb County, but have declined to release those addresses.

The address on the arrest warrant served on Hilton Saturday has an address on Clairmont Road in Chamblee.

Gunter said the grand jury is meeting today, but he did not have enough evidence gathered yet to take the case to the Grand Jury. "We have not received the report from the GBI crime lab," he said. He the lab reports are expected back from the GBI this week and he would take the case to the Grand Jury within 90 days.

He said "I am very confident in the case so far....I think we have a good case. I think it's a very good case." Authorities have so far declined to say exactly what led them to suspect Hilton so soon after Emerson disappeared. GBI spokesman John Bankhead said it was based on witnesses coming forward with information. Gunter decline to say whether there is video surveillance footage connecting Hilton to Emerson.

There is a videotape of Hilton allegedly trying to withdraw money from Emerson's account at an ATM machine in Canton.

— Staff reporter Christian Boone contributed to this article.
 
I hunted the Pedregosa Mountains in AZ for the first time last year, about 25 miles from the border. When entering the Coronado National Forest there were billboard- size signs posted by the National Forest Service advising that it was unsafe due to smuggling and illegal immigration (their words). It's a helluva note when in these United States there are warning signs posted instead of effective law enforcement, the same as if it was a bear or primitive road warning :mad:.

I was told by a state trooper on the highway:)D) that there were no problems there during the big game seasons because of armed hunters in the field. I thought it was an interesting observation coming from the LEO. :)Regards, ss.
 
Deepest sympathies for the family..... I am thinking of other things I would like to say about the perp., but let's focus on her and her family.... wish them the best under these terrible times....
 
Just read the post preceding mine. How sad for her and her family. I did notice one observer said he didn't look "capable of such a thing", a common reaction. ss.
 
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