Flipping!

[rickmenefee]

It was a Bose design. Oh no wait,it wasn't . Or is it ? I'm so confused. But I forgot to discuss it ,I just ordered up 500 of 'em.

Tony doesn't deserve the respect Vince! He has done nothing for the slip joint trade. Not to mention every custom slip joint maker that's ever requested pattern's or help. Hell he just wasted 40 years

He should already be in the hall of fame!!!

 

[VCM3]

Tony doesn't deserve the respect Vince! He has done nothing for the slip joint trade. Not to mention every custom slip joint maker that's ever requested pattern's or help. Hell he just wasted 40 years

He should already be in the hall of fame!!!

Oh hell I know that. That is why I was so surprised to find out that no conversation had took place before an order of hundreds of those Zulu's were put in. OP you're upset about flippin,how about flippin ideas. Sorry we're hijacking this thread but flipping is a mute point. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head saying you better write a check.

Now thievery ,using a good man's name for profits,that's something for a thread perhaps.

Enjoy the entertainment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_EX1Vo7ri8

 

[major_works]

Good conversation, and some good points. Blade 2016 was an eye opener for me... There are niches in our hobby that are more like a cult. I couldn't count the number of mid-tech custom makers that had knives on their table that couldn't even be bought. You had to put your name in a lottery with a few hundred other folks and if they drew out your name - then you could pay $1000 for the knife. But flippers have been out there for years. Probably 8-10 years ago I had a customer that was buying the same knife every couple of weeks. I finally went and checked eBay and found him. He was buying the Schatt & Morgan Mountain Man from me for $70 and averaging around $125 on eBay. At the time, I spent some time thinking about that and decided that it was none of my business what he did with it once he owned it. Also, I was / am not going to try and play the game of figured out just how much I can squeeze out of someone on any given knife just because it is popular. I have seen dealers hold back Charlie's SFO's just to run them on eBay themselves; and I have seen Rendezvous knives for sale for double the money while the Rendezvous is still happening.

For my part, you get the opportunity in the order you put your name on the list. And if I have a standby list, each person is limited to one; this is actually really easy on my platform. But once they are generally available I do have folks that will come back and pick up several if they are speculating on them. I have zero "good ole boy" setbacks despite those that always get their feelings hurt because they "thought we were friends"

There are many folks that will get on every dealers reserve list for really short stuff. I can't stop a husband and wife from both getting on the reservation list. But I have spotted a couple of people "selling" their reservation and had to implement a rule prohibiting it.

Generally, my opinion is that it is none of my business what they do with something once they own it. If I can help insure that everyone that wants one gets one without having to go to the secondary market - I will. But there have been many knives that i knew I was paying too much just so I could fill that hole in my collection without wondering if I would ever see it again; and if it didn't bother me, it shouldn't bother someone else.

I recently got the auto text from you saying there was a new SFO up for preorder. I immediately go to your preorder page to grab one. They were all spoken for already. I'm talking seconds after the text came in, 10 seconds max. It's stuff like that that convinces me that the process is gamed. Very frustrating but I'm not a hardcore collector, so I don't know the secret handshake or password or whatever it takes. So it goes.


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[Jack Black]

I feel like this post should be quoted for shameless sensibility. :thumbup: (Even if it was written by the guy who railroaded me into buying a Wright lambsfoot. )

Heck, I didn't SELL it to you! :thumbup:

I'd forgotten how fast threads move outside the Traditional forum!

 

[Jsega51]

Major works, sometimes everyone reserving a knife from Mike at CK will be put into standby because he doesn't know how many knives he will get. As soon as the first person enters a reserve, all variants show red and everyone will be placed on the list in order of their reserve time. So even though it appears you missed out, it looked that way for everyone. You might get lucky and get the email when he knows how many knives he has to make available.

 

[Jack Black]

I like OLD knives, I don’t buy them on the internet, I go to antique shops and flea-markets. I come across lots of knives I like, if the prices are too high I don’t buy them. I’ve given plenty of the knives I buy away, I’ve never re-sold a single one (again laziness is probably a big factor). I’ve also been given lots of knives, both old and new, by posters I’ve, for the most part, never met.

This thread started off in the Traditional sub-forum, which I think has a very altruistic atmosphere, and non-commercial guidelines. For those who don’t post there, many of the posts here perhaps seem kind of strange.

I’ve learned a lot over the years since I’ve been posting in the Traditional sub-forum, and that learning hasn’t cost me a penny (my Gold membership is just to support the site, and optional). Like others, I often get contacted by other members who I don’t know, asking me about a particular knife they have. I wish people would just post to the forum, so others get the chance to chime in, and also to share the information, but I don’t mind too much, and always try to help. However, a while back I received a PM from a particular member, unknown to me, asking about a particular Sheffield-made knife. His PM started with “You seem to be something of an expert on ******** knives...” Now that certainly wasn’t the case, but as I later realised, he had simply done a search on those knives, and found that I’d posted a couple of threads about them. By chance, I was able to tell him quite a bit about the knife he was asking about, including who had actually made it, which factory it was made in, and when. The reply I received simply said, “So, how much is it worth?” At that point, I checked his posting history, and discovered that while he had been a member here a couple of years, he had never made a single post, which didn’t involve him selling a knife. Sure enough, within a few days, the knife he had asked me about, also popped up for sale. Perhaps I should have charged him a consultancy fee? But then I’m not out to make a profit from folks here, just not my thing.

I’ve nothing whatsoever against sales, they’re an important part of our hobby, but I’d rather they didn’t leak into the other forums, as for example when someone puts up a knife for sale, then spams other forums with images of the knife – as in ‘Here’s what I’m carrying today (and it just happens to be on sale, in big letters, in my sig line)’.

As has been said, fashions come and go. I find the hysteria for particular patterns scary at times, all that ‘I NEED’ stuff...the sort of thing I’d have got a clout round the head for as a child Another reason I prefer old patterns and old knives

 

[Murindo]

For the most part, people vote with their wallet. If there weren't a market for it, you'd see less of it.

Not my thing, just an observation.

Flipping has been going on as long as the Exchange has been open. Wait six months to a year and the "knife of the moment" will be going dirt cheap. You have to have the patience to wait it out.

 

[supratentorial]

I've also gotten similar emails and given long replies then realized that the real reason for contacting me was for a value. All the history was of little interest.

There were and still are a lot guys flipping old knives. Though the values and interest in old knives has declined a lot recently. The Remington market was very competitive a few years ago. I can't tell you how many beautifully preserved oldies I lost at auction and then saw back on Ebay a week later for double the price after a fluff and buff that removed any remaining finish and diminished the value to me. I remember at least one time that I did end up paying the huge markup because I wanted the knife so badly.

Anywho... the forum is lucky to have a guy like you.

 

[knifeswapper]

I recently got the auto text from you saying there was a new SFO up for preorder. I immediately go to your preorder page to grab one. They were all spoken for already. I'm talking seconds after the text came in, 10 seconds max. It's stuff like that that convinces me that the process is gamed. Very frustrating but I'm not a hardcore collector, so I don't know the secret handshake or password or whatever it takes. So it goes.
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Since you are insinuating something under the table here and we are in GB&U, I will respond with some facts. I assume we are talking the #14 TC Barlow.

There are less than 10 of each single blade and less than 5 doubles anticipated; thus that is how many were accounted in my system. Every one I expect to receive was placed in the system. The text was sent at 12:50:59 PM Central. The first reservation was submitted received at 12:52:09. Some were going into "Standby" at 12:52:37. All were in "Standby" by 12:52:56. Nothing was even touched, much less closed in 10 seconds. Once they were at least 250% oversubscribed I closed the reserves to save me money (each confirm email costs).

So, I hate that you didn't make it there in time. But this only happens in the rare occasion that there are a tiny number of knives expected. I don't know of any better way to do it. But you couldn't be more wrong, at least in my case, about there being some secret process. The reason it gets so hectic a couple times a year is because the system is so fair.

Jsega51 is correct in that previously I just told the system I was getting one, so that all but the first reserver went into "Standby"; but that was just more confusing to folks that wanted a thumbs up/down so they could look elsewhere. Probably won't do that again and didn't do that on the #14TC.

 

[rickmenefee]

Mike Latham is a class act!

 

[mtangent]

How would everybody feel if GEC simply raised prices 50%?
Comes to the same thing as far as buyers are concerned. Flippers wouldn't have any wiggle room.
One way of looking at this, is that GEC have mispriced their offerings, & selling too cheap. The flippers are simply confirming that in the real world.

There have been a few comments about GEC prices approaching custom prices. Why shouldn't that happen? There are many comments about GEC being the same quality as custom knives.

 

[Ryouchijtx]

How would everybody feel if GEC simply raised prices 50%?
Comes to the same thing as far as buyers are concerned. Flippers wouldn't have any wiggle room.
One way of looking at this, is that GEC have mispriced their offerings, & selling too cheap. The flippers are simply confirming that in the real world.

There have been a few comments about GEC prices approaching custom prices. Why shouldn't that happen? There are many comments about GEC being the same quality as custom knives.

-GEC has their own set pricing to dealers and from dealers to customers that they already feel is fair.

-Having the pricing go up wouldn't change flipping at all. People flip for anywhere from 50-100-200% at times.

-GEC prices are nowhere near custom prices from dealers. Perhaps on ebay or on the secondary yes. But nowhere near straight from a dealer.

-You're wrong, GEC's are not near the same quality as higher end custom traditional knives. Case/Bose knives would be a more fair comparison
GEC's are fantastic as I have many but it's an unfair comparison/a completely different level of fit and finish.

 

[JB in SC]

How would everybody feel if GEC simply raised prices 50%?
Comes to the same thing as far as buyers are concerned. Flippers wouldn't have any wiggle room.
One way of looking at this, is that GEC have mispriced their offerings, & selling too cheap. The flippers are simply confirming that in the real world.

There have been a few comments about GEC prices approaching custom prices. Why shouldn't that happen? There are many comments about GEC being the same quality as custom knives.

GEC makes a nice production knife but in no way comes close to any custom I own.

 

[meako]

If you want to get rid of "flippers" then stop obsessively needing to have every new knife that comes out.

These people are not stupid, they are the epitomy of the ugly side of free market Capitalism (something ironically that we all hold so dear to our hearts)

They play on the materialistic-need-to-have-it-now-at-any-cost mentality that is society these days.
Mix that in with a little OCD that every true collector has and you get this perceived "problem"

You want them gone, show some patience. Patience kills the whole idea of how to make money as a "flipper"

well put.

 

[meako]

Since you are insinuating something under the table here and we are in GB&U, I will respond with some facts. I assume we are talking the #14 TC Barlow.

There are less than 10 of each single blade and less than 5 doubles anticipated; thus that is how many were accounted in my system. Every one I expect to receive was placed in the system. The text was sent at 12:50:59 PM Central. The first reservation was submitted received at 12:52:09. Some were going into "Standby" at 12:52:37. All were in "Standby" by 12:52:56. Nothing was even touched, much less closed in 10 seconds. Once they were at least 250% oversubscribed I closed the reserves to save me money (each confirm email costs).

So, I hate that you didn't make it there in time. But this only happens in the rare occasion that there are a tiny number of knives expected. I don't know of any better way to do it. But you couldn't be more wrong, at least in my case, about there being some secret process. The reason it gets so hectic a couple times a year is because the system is so fair.

Jsega51 is correct in that previously I just told the system I was getting one, so that all but the first reserver went into "Standby"; but that was just more confusing to folks that wanted a thumbs up/down so they could look elsewhere. Probably won't do that again and didn't do that on the #14TC.

That must be frustrating and somewhat disheartening. Mike although I have purchased only once from you (yes I snuck around your OS shipping policy by having it sent to Esnyx who sent it on to me in OZ muuhaahhaaa) I reckon you are an upright dealer and strive to be fair and equitable for your customers.Sadly short runs will result in someone missing out no matter how hard you try. Sad but true.
Moving forward -and I know this will sound obvious - I believe you would have some serious clout at GEC business level. Could this be used to suggest an extension of short runs that have flown out the door before. like a re run.
Or would that just increase the frustration -i dunno -just thinking out loud .:foot:
cheers.

In response to a previous post -I don't think we are "whining".
Expressing an opinion -yes. Expressing a distaste for the practice of "flipping" yes.
Believe me- as an Englishman who grew up in Australia or "whinging pommy" as we are known I can tell you that complaining about anything in this country
particularly the weather makes you as popular as a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah.

so just to be clear I have decided to make a distinction between trading , selling, swapping, dealing and flipping. All slighty different, all perfectly legal but in the words of Bob off Sesame Street "one of these things is not like the others."

 

[mtangent]

so just to be clear I have decided to make a distinction between trading , selling, swapping, dealing and flipping. All slighty different, all perfectly legal but in the words of Bob off Sesame Street "one of these things is not like the others."

It is very similar though. The flipper is essentially an extra middleman in the supply chain. A level between retail & final resting place.
I can understand the irritation, being an accumulator & user. But I just can't see one middle man being that much worse than another. They both are paying a seller an agreed on price, then finding a buyer at a higher price. The world is big & complicated.

My understanding is that GEC sells to retailers, like Mike Latham, who then sells to individuals.
Many supply chains have an extra level, a wholesaler, for example. Perhaps this fourth level provides some value, and market forces are naturally creating that fourth level in the GEC story currently.

 

[Ratbert]

I find the hysteria for particular patterns scary at times, all that ‘I NEED’ stuff...the sort of thing I’d have got a clout round the head for as a child

Hahaha...I'm thinking that your father and mine would have understood each other quite well.

 

[knifeswapper]

My understanding is that GEC sells to retailers, like Mike Latham, who then sells to individuals.
Many supply chains have an extra level, a wholesaler, for example. Perhaps this fourth level provides some value, and market forces are naturally creating that fourth level in the GEC story currently.

GEC actually has two levels. Distributors and Dealers. Distributors are required to have a resale license and maintain $36k/yr in volume. There is really only one distributor that I know of that wholesales GEC and that is Blue Ridge Knives.

 

[mtangent]

GEC actually has two levels. Distributors and Dealers. Distributors are required to have a resale license and maintain $36k/yr in volume. There is really only one distributor that I know of that wholesales GEC and that is Blue Ridge Knives.

Thank you.

 

[major_works]

Since you are insinuating something under the table here and we are in GB&U, I will respond with some facts. I assume we are talking the #14 TC Barlow.

There are less than 10 of each single blade and less than 5 doubles anticipated; thus that is how many were accounted in my system. Every one I expect to receive was placed in the system. The text was sent at 12:50:59 PM Central. The first reservation was submitted received at 12:52:09. Some were going into "Standby" at 12:52:37. All were in "Standby" by 12:52:56. Nothing was even touched, much less closed in 10 seconds. Once they were at least 250% oversubscribed I closed the reserves to save me money (each confirm email costs).

So, I hate that you didn't make it there in time. But this only happens in the rare occasion that there are a tiny number of knives expected. I don't know of any better way to do it. But you couldn't be more wrong, at least in my case, about there being some secret process. The reason it gets so hectic a couple times a year is because the system is so fair.

Jsega51 is correct in that previously I just told the system I was getting one, so that all but the first reserver went into "Standby"; but that was just more confusing to folks that wanted a thumbs up/down so they could look elsewhere. Probably won't do that again and didn't do that on the #14TC.

Mr. Latham, it may be that I simply don't understand your reservation system. When I got to the page as quickly as I did after receiving the text and saw all variants already marked red, I thought that meant that they were all reserved and that I had no shot at purchasing a knife. Thus I didn't even try to reserve one. I thought there was no point. Am I to understand that if I had put in a reservation at that moment, I may still have been afforded an opportunity to buy one? I'm not sure if that's what you meant in your reply.

I will assert again, however, that I was at the early reservation page within seconds of receiving the text and saw only red. Maybe the text was delayed in getting to me somehow, I don't know. In any case, it was disappointing but I know I wasn't the only one shut out.

Yes, it was the 14 TC Barlow. I've missed out on any/all 15 TC Barlows since I've been hanging around Traditionals as well. I have a 15 Huck's boy's knife and I just figure its basically the same except for the bolsters. There was no stress involved with purchasing it either, so I guess I'm ahead of the game.


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