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Hope Simon will do the right thing?

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farokhsidhwa, back off. You don't seem to understand what a moderator does here. You certainly don't seem to know how well RevDevil has worked the FEEDBACK forum.

We are looking for results, for understanding leading to conflict resolution. That is not always possible and rarely easy. We need to push when we don't see someone addressing a gap in the record.

If you aren't happy, your recourse is to the website owner, Spark. But you aren't a principle in this dispute, so a bit of courtesy wouldn't hurt, either.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
farokhsidhwa, back off. You don't seem to understand what a moderator does here. You certainly don't seem to know how well RevDevil has worked the FEEDBACK forum.

We are looking for results, for understanding leading to conflict resolution. That is not always possible and rarely easy. We need to push when we don't see someone addressing a gap in the record.

If you aren't happy, your recourse is to the website owner, Spark. But you aren't a principle in this dispute, so a bit of courtesy wouldn't hurt, either.
Click to expand...
[emoji122]
 
For people talking about feedback......

Being realistic....Members here will most likely look at a feedback and draw conclusions from it (not necessarily make assumptions)...I'd say it is reasonable to draw a conclusion that Mr Davison (not sure if it's Davidson or Davison but I'm going with username spelling) has a good reputation for a good product and a good customer service from the fact that he has all good reviews and has 76 of them (thus far)...So it makes sense when between someone who has 2 good reviews VS 76 some people may choose a side, Possibly pre-emptively. IT HAPPENS...same thing for people venturing guesses as to what happened, everyone has an opinion based on experiences they've seen and had in the past. That's not something to take personally, It's all background noise and opinion behind the buyer, seller, and the mods conversation. This is similar to a lot of situations that I've seen on GBU lately, It's just a discussion and it's still an opportunity for a good outcome. If something can come here and both parties can amend the situation it (in my opinion) isn't a negative thing, maybe just a misunderstanding. THEY HAPPEN.
I would even say it's expected in a situation where something is going through customs/packaging services as well as a language gap.

Good luck to both parties and Thanks to the mods for their work in frustrating situations of this nature.

:applouse::applause:
 
Todd is a great guy and will and would do the right thing every time. Looks like he jumped thru hoops that I would have not for the customer. For this reason I will not make the Lc for simonxm
that was on the books for next week. Don't need the headache. Sorry
Best
Rick Menefee
 
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Rick,
You have made a wise decision.

I think there is more to this story yet to come.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
farokhsidhwa, back off. You don't seem to understand what a moderator does here. You certainly don't seem to know how well RevDevil has worked the FEEDBACK forum.

We are looking for results, for understanding leading to conflict resolution. That is not always possible and rarely easy. We need to push when we don't see someone addressing a gap in the record.

If you aren't happy, your recourse is to the website owner, Spark. But you aren't a principle in this dispute, so a bit of courtesy wouldn't hurt, either.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, thank you. :thumbup:
 
farokhsidhwa said:
I must say, Rev, he is right. You are admitting that things have been lost in translation, meaning you do not have all the facts. As a MODERATOR, simonxm is correct in his statement. It seems you are simply siding with a dedicated forum member (who has outstanding feedback).

Aren't you supposed to find out all the facts before accusing? Aren't you supposed to remain somewhat impartial? Mr Davidson has actually stated that he is "over" this issue, meaning that he has already expended his efforts at making all parties happy. Furthermore, Mr Davison clearly neglected to state the issue with the spring/backspacer in his original post. To me it seems like there are details being left out, yet people are still making assumtions, mostly based on feedback score. Obviously the third party shipping thing is absolute nonsense and is just asking for issues to occur. However I am ashamed that the MODERATOR rev devil has decided to make assumptions and take sides without getting all the facts, and neglecting the fact that Mr Davidson "forgot" to mention key issues. That is not moderating.

As it stands, simonxm is still responding to this thread, trying to make all parties happy and to uphold his reputation. Mr Davison is not. We need a bladeforums court judge...and they cannot be biased like rev devil.
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No, Simon is not correct and neither are you I'm afraid. Things are indeed lost in translation, Simon is dodging questions and not filling in the gaps that are in need of answers. As for Todd Davison, I have no bias. You are assuming a lot at this point. He and I are not close friends rather acquaintances, and like most people that enjoy traditional knives I admire the quality and consistency of his work. He's been around here for a long time, if he was selling junk I think we would have heard it by now. I am about as impartial as you will find. So what makes your opinion any better or carry more weight than that of any one else's?

How would you propose we find out the facts when a.) the questions being directed to Simon are being ignored or not understood for days on end now; and b.) he provides a chain of emails that contradicts his very position 3 different times? I don't blame Todd for being frustrated, this is his livelihood when people dink around with the manner in which you provide for your family there is only so many ways a person can react when you get ignored over a dozen times via email when you ask SIMPLE and DIRECT questions. Yet, he is taking the high road. He could very well have unleashed a barrage of vulgarity and insults, but that simply is not the way he conducts himself. You have to respect that at least, right?

Simply "responding to the thread" is not going to cut it, we are way past that point. What Simon needs to do is respond to the questions being asked. Filling in the gaps and explaining what happened to the item that has made it potentially unsaleable. I can just about guarantee you that item did not arrive to Simon in that condition (giant scratch across the shield and cover), and he admits it via email. So the next question is, HOW DID THAT ITEM GET DAMAGED THE WAY IT DID? It was the buyer's responsibility to send the item back insured and make sure it arrives in the same condition in which it was received, again which he admitted that he did NOT do. Please try and keep up. Try to understand what moderators do, on any forum. This is not a legal court, and I think everyone but you understands this. What we are going to do is protect the community as best we can based on the information we have.

If you have a problem with the way I moderate, please bring it to Spark's attention. I have absolutely nothing to huide, nor do I feel I am being biased.
 
IMHO, both parties in this matter need to stop with any animosity. They both need to communicate better and answer each other questions/concerns.
Accusing the customer of an outright scam without clear proof, honestly, is a poor show.

There is the very real possibility and likelihood that this item was damaged in transit by either the shipping services repackaging or by a customs agent. Both parties should be concerting their efforts as to that fact and put it on hopshopgo's/customs table. Any shipping, but especially international shipping, carries the risk that somewhere negligence will happen and the item could become damaged. That is why proper packaging, documentation and insurance for full value become so important. A sellers only other choice is not to do business internationally.

We are fairly sure that Mr. Davison did not send the item with problems, yet the buyer describes a few.
It can be fairly deduced that a buyer, expecting a full refund according to the sellers stated policy, would not return an item with such glaring damage. To me this points to something happening along the way, unbeknownst to either party.

As to the knife itself.... I don't see a raised pivot. I do see I small mark in the mammoth and a deeply gouged shield, which likely could be removed and replaced by a craftsman of Mr. Davisons caliber. The item would likely still need to be honestly resold as a blemished item at a reduced cost. Such is life. I won't comment on the blade scuffing, as Mr. Davison has not shown any pictures of it.

Moderator commentary, for or against either party, should be unbiased and in this case reserved until all facts are known...which I don't believe they are, due to communication/language issues and animosity.

The best that could be hoped for now in this case is that both parties cool off and work towards a solution that is agreeable to them both.
 
Another factor in this tragic situation is that the culture in China takes it very very seriously and personally when called something like a "scammer". This is a bigger problem for the buyer than the knife at this point if I am reading him correctly.

Us Americans laugh it off, but I'll bet that it is really bothering him.

I hope that he and Todd get it straight somehow.

Eric
 
Since the majority of the damage was done AFTER Simonxm received the knife, there's no obligation on Todd at this point. Simonxm should take it up with the shipping companies. I highly doubt the gap that Simonxm described as being the main issue was anything to complain about. None of my Davison's have them but I checked all my other customs and there's a few that do. Does it bother me? Not one bit. They're so slight that you only see them by holding them up to the light. These knives are handmade. Nothing is perfect. You can get close, but there will always be something a few thousandths off.

Sorry Simonxm, you're not a scammer in my mind but you are SOL. You should have taken Todd's initial offers to rectify this situation and this thread would have never came up. You'd have a nice knife at a cheaper price or two knives in your pocket instead of one knife that looks like it was ran over.

And there's no replacing the shield. They're pinned on the inside meaning the entire knife would.need to be taken completely apart. Ain't gonna happen without ruining the whole knife.
 
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1. It is an incredible insult to call any Asian, but specifically a Chinese person a "scammer".

2. I don't think the buyer knows enough about slipjoints and American slipjoint makers to comfortably purchase from photos.

3. Self perception and perception from others is a major deal in China....a person could actually BE a scammer in China, but if you call them out on it publicly....it's very bad...and I'm not saying OP IS a scammer.

4. Todd can, and should simply sell the knife for the lesser "damaged" price, refund that money to the person in question, and say "sorry for the misunderstanding, better luck next time"....and not sell to this collector again. It's simple. Why this even has to be some international kerfuffle is entirely beyond me.

5. Im pretty sure I could remove the scratching myself with professional equipment, but the color of the ivory would suffer.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
1. It is an incredible insult to call any Asian, but specifically a Chinese person a "scammer".

2. I don't think the buyer knows enough about slipjoints and American slipjoint makers to comfortably purchase from photos.

3. Self perception and perception from others is a major deal in China....a person could actually BE a scammer in China, but if you call them out on it publicly....it's very bad...and I'm not saying OP IS a scammer.

4. Todd can, and should simply sell the knife for the lesser "damaged" price, refund that money to the person in question, and say "sorry for the misunderstanding, better luck next time"....and not sell to this collector again. It's simple. Why this even has to be some international kerfuffle is entirely beyond me.

5. Im pretty sure I could remove the scratching myself with professional equipment, but the color of the ivory would suffer.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Because the knife came back in a condition worse than it was sent. Lets for arguments sake say simon is legit and this "accident" rendering the knife unfixable hapened on its way back to the states. Then this is a shipping damage claim and its up to simonx to file that claim as he is the one who shipped it. Unfortunately he only paid 10% of the actual value to insure it because he didnt want to get dinged on the taxes. Not todds problem.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Because the knife came back in a condition worse than it was sent. Lets for arguments sake say simon is legit and this "accident" rendering the knife unfixable hapened on its way back to the states. Then this is a shipping damage claim and its up to simonx to file that claim as he is the one who shipped it. Unfortunately he only paid 10% of the actual value to insure it because he didnt want to get dinged on the taxes. Not todds problem.
Click to expand...

I'm saying that Todd would keep the money from the sale of the defective knife, not that the buyer would get paid twice(the buyer would have to drop a claim on Paypal in order for this to work). The buyer would have to eat the difference.....each should be able to walk away...Todd gets his price, and the buyer pays a bit of a loss....dissatisfied, but not out the entire cost.

Sorry if I have not been clear on that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
RevDevil said:
No, Simon is not correct and neither are you I'm afraid. Things are indeed lost in translation, Simon is dodging questions and not filling in the gaps that are in need of answers. As for Todd Davison, I have no bias. You are assuming a lot at this point. He and I are not close friends rather acquaintances, and like most people that enjoy traditional knives I admire the quality and consistency of his work. He's been around here for a long time, if he was selling junk I think we would have heard it by now. I am about as impartial as you will find. So what makes your opinion any better or carry more weight than that of any one else's?

How would you propose we find out the facts when a.) the questions being directed to Simon are being ignored or not understood for days on end now; and b.) he provides a chain of emails that contradicts his very position 3 different times? I don't blame Todd for being frustrated, this is his livelihood when people dink around with the manner in which you provide for your family there is only so many ways a person can react when you get ignored over a dozen times via email when you ask SIMPLE and DIRECT questions. Yet, he is taking the high road. He could very well have unleashed a barrage of vulgarity and insults, but that simply is not the way he conducts himself. You have to respect that at least, right?

Simply "responding to the thread" is not going to cut it, we are way past that point. What Simon needs to do is respond to the questions being asked. Filling in the gaps and explaining what happened to the item that has made it potentially unsaleable. I can just about guarantee you that item did not arrive to Simon in that condition (giant scratch across the shield and cover), and he admits it via email. So the next question is, HOW DID THAT ITEM GET DAMAGED THE WAY IT DID? It was the buyer's responsibility to send the item back insured and make sure it arrives in the same condition in which it was received, again which he admitted that he did NOT do. Please try and keep up. Try to understand what moderators do, on any forum. This is not a legal court, and I think everyone but you understands this. What we are going to do is protect the community as best we can based on the information we have.

If you have a problem with the way I moderate, please bring it to Spark's attention. I have absolutely nothing to huide, nor do I feel I am being biased.
Click to expand...

Hi Rev,

I do not understand why you guys just don't trust me about the scratches. I does not care about but if I know there is that deep scratches I would not chase Todd. I sent many emails in there but you simply do not take that as you think that's not evidence of proofing I'm not a scammer.

The main conflict and I'm worrying is that why you can accept one to accuse the other one scammer?

If this was easy to solve, it is not now! I can not accept being called scammer. You want to give that name because I can not explain the scratches, I would not accept!
 
simonxm said:
Hi Rev,

I do not understand why you guys just don't trust me about the scratches. I does not care about but if I know there is that deep scratches I would not chase Todd. I sent many emails in there but you simply do not take that as you think that's not evidence of proofing I'm not a scammer.

The main conflict and I'm worrying is that why you can accept one to accuse the other one scammer?

If this was easy to solve, it is not now! I can not accept being called scammer. You want to give that name because I can not explain the scratches, I would not accept!
Click to expand...

Simon, many here that concur and know Todd much better than I would swear that the knife did not arrive to you with the scratches.
They happened at some point after you received it. When they happened is what is of concern to Todd as he is the only on that has something at stake here.
When he made an offer of a $300 refund plus a second knife for free, you refused what many people would consider a once in a lifetime deal. You refused and did not state why.
What is concerning as well is that you are not really explaining WHY you make the statements or decisions you are making.
Common practice and what would be reasonable due diligence (generally speaking) if you YOU to contact YOUR shipping agents and find out what happened to the item, you should be trying to find out why the item was damaged when you sent it back, that is if you didn't damage it yourself.
The way you have presented your side of things is that you do not care about anything other than getting a refund. That is a bit strange to many of us in this place especially from someone that considers themselves a good member in good standing (you).
If I were in your situation, I would be trying to find out who damaged the knife. Pick up th phone write an email something to find out why that scratch is there. When you buy something at a store here or just about anywhere, you do not get your money back unless the item is returned in a resellable, unused condition (the same as received).
I'm sorry I cannot really make you understand. You need to work this out with Todd, not me. I know what I would be doing if I were you and it doesn't seem that we share the same answer on that. I am sure that in China there is a concept of accountability, well if you are not accountable then someone is and must be held as accountable for the damage, it didn't damage itself.
Good Luck in figuring something out while being reasonable.
 
RevDevil said:
Simon, many here that concur and know Todd much better than I would swear that the knife did not arrive to you with the scratches.
They happened at some point after you received it. When they happened is what is of concern to Todd as he is the only on that has something at stake here.
When he made an offer of a $300 refund plus a second knife for free, you refused what many people would consider a once in a lifetime deal. You refused and did not state why.
What is concerning as well is that you are not really explaining WHY you make the statements or decisions you are making.
Common practice and what would be reasonable due diligence (generally speaking) if you YOU to contact YOUR shipping agents and find out what happened to the item, you should be trying to find out why the item was damaged when you sent it back, that is if you didn't damage it yourself.
The way you have presented your side of things is that you do not care about anything other than getting a refund. That is a bit strange to many of us in this place especially from someone that considers themselves a good member in good standing (you).
If I were in your situation, I would be trying to find out who damaged the knife. Pick up th phone write an email something to find out why that scratch is there. When you buy something at a store here or just about anywhere, you do not get your money back unless the item is returned in a resellable, unused condition (the same as received).
I'm sorry I cannot really make you understand. You need to work this out with Todd, not me. I know what I would be doing if I were you and it doesn't seem that we share the same answer on that. I am sure that in China there is a concept of accountability, well if you are not accountable then someone is and must be held as accountable for the damage, it didn't damage itself.
Good Luck in figuring something out while being reasonable.
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Hi Rev,

I believe that all you guys who blame me think i still want a refund. Im not requesting a refund!

The last email from me was to ask Todd to reply my email and let me know what happened. But end up with this.

This deal and refund reaction were not about the money. It was about a passion to own a perfect knife and fed up with being accused unreasonable. I know math well and thats a very good deal. But Todd said Im unreasonable after agreed refund. I am kind of think why.
But i did not want to be think i'm unreasonable and trying take advantage of the buyer. Because there is actually gap there on the back why the maker would not accept this?
 
RevDevil said:
Simon, many here that concur and know Todd much better than I would swear that the knife did not arrive to you with the scratches.
They happened at some point after you received it. When they happened is what is of concern to Todd as he is the only on that has something at stake here.
When he made an offer of a $300 refund plus a second knife for free, you refused what many people would consider a once in a lifetime deal. You refused and did not state why.
What is concerning as well is that you are not really explaining WHY you make the statements or decisions you are making.
Common practice and what would be reasonable due diligence (generally speaking) if you YOU to contact YOUR shipping agents and find out what happened to the item, you should be trying to find out why the item was damaged when you sent it back, that is if you didn't damage it yourself.
The way you have presented your side of things is that you do not care about anything other than getting a refund. That is a bit strange to many of us in this place especially from someone that considers themselves a good member in good standing (you).
If I were in your situation, I would be trying to find out who damaged the knife. Pick up th phone write an email something to find out why that scratch is there. When you buy something at a store here or just about anywhere, you do not get your money back unless the item is returned in a resellable, unused condition (the same as received).
I'm sorry I cannot really make you understand. You need to work this out with Todd, not me. I know what I would be doing if I were you and it doesn't seem that we share the same answer on that. I am sure that in China there is a concept of accountability, well if you are not accountable then someone is and must be held as accountable for the damage, it didn't damage itself.
Good Luck in figuring something out while being reasonable.
Click to expand...
If i worked it out, can I still win my name back?

Its not about the solution for knife now. Its the solution to win the case/charge here!

As this a free country and free forun, any body can acuse the other guy publicly free.
 
Would be nice to hear from seller again and maybe a few pics of gap (or alledged such) as it is now? It seems that this is a good example of the potential difficulties of international deals. I really think the maker is totally solid and the buyer likely a good guy; but this whole intermediary thing makes the true issue hard to say for certain. Todd, can you shed a bit more color to the buyers recent statements? After all, you are accusing him of being a scammer.
 
Here are the photos of the knife now.
If Simon will send me an address to send the knife back to him, I will apologize and we can be done with this.

What happened to the knife when shipped back - I do not know.

I hope you are an honorable man Simon - sorry for all the trouble and saying you tried to scam me.

Lets end this and move on- lessons learned on both sides.


You can see the small scratches across scales and what ever small gap? he was not satisfied with.
The problems really could not be fixed with out rebuilding the knife. So that is why I offered the money first and then asked if he would like another knife for free.

1232S3.jpg

1232S2.jpg

1232S4.jpg

1232S5.jpg


I never claim to build the perfect knife and I probably never will - I just make the best knives I can.

That's all.
 
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That is a beautiful knife.

It is a real shame it was damage during the mess.
 
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