Reate Knives 2015 Horizon High-end Series

The problem here is the people who want it cheaper aren't machinists. They don't understand how much more program and machine time and tool wear a 3d contour is going to give you. Look at say the zt0392 or sebenza or any of a thousand ti frame locks, two titanium slabs with chamfering around the edges, yet people are glad to pay 400 dollars to get one. Here you get a textured 3d contour mill that looks spectacular. Takes tons more time to machine and program and he's selling it for the same price, it's an excellent deal. All you people who say it should be cheaper just don't know what you're talking about. You try designing it, programing it, machining it, and then selling it for cheaper. Beautiful work Reate, I plan to pick one of these up as soon as I can afford. Honestly the best design I've seen this year.
 
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Remember that Reate has no control over the pricing for knives produced for Liong Mah, Todd Begg and Fort Henry.
 
deathofallthings said:
The problem here is all these guys aren't machinists and have no understanding of how much extra machine time is put into that 3D contour milling on the D that the C did not have. Look at say the zt0392 or sebenza or any of a thousand ti frame locks, two titanium slabs with chamfering around the edges, yet people are glad to pay 400 dollars to get one. Here you get a fully contoured textured 3d mill that looks spectacular. Takes tons more time to machine and program and he's selling it for the same price, it's an excellent deal. All you people who say it should be cheaper just don't know what you're talking about. You try designing it, programing it, machining it, and then sell it for cheaper. Beautiful work Reate, I plan to pick one of these up as soon as I can afford. Honestly the best design I've seen this year.
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we arent comparing it to the C. We are comparing it to the A which had M390, a more intricate machining pattern as well as a semi integral backspacer which increased Titanium waste by 50%. Those sold on bladehq for $250............ Who doesnt know what they are talking about again? You also completely ignore the difference of cost of manufacturing in china vs the USA.

 
Why are members continuously alowed to troll Reate and Kizer threads?....And no it is not just a matter of "sharing opinions". Is it because Reate doesn't have their own subforum? I've read that Kizer wants to open a subforum, what's the hold-up? What's stopping them? For comparision, I've seen members get warned or outright banned for trolling, or arguing with company reps or amongst others in other makers' threads/subforums. You weren't even allowed to say anything bad about a certain framelock company in their subforum at one point. Maybe a subforum is worth a try, so people who have negative EMOTIONS or have no interest in their knives do not have to visit them.

Mind you, I have very little interest in Reate and Kizer knives but do occasionaly check out these threads and it's always the same tired BS. Something should be done.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Why are members continuously alowed to troll Reate and Kizer threads?....And no it is not just a matter of "sharing opinions". Is it because Reate doesn't have their own subforum? I've read that Kizer wants to open a subforum, what's the hold-up? What's stopping them? For comparision, I've seen members get warned or outright banned for trolling, or arguing with company reps or amongst others in other makers' threads/subforums. You weren't even allowed to say anything bad about a certain framelock company in their subforum at one point. Maybe a subforum is worth a try, so people who have negative EMOTIONS or have no interest in their knives do not have to visit them.

Mind you, I have very little interest in Reate and Kizer knives but do occasionaly check out these threads and it's always the same tired BS. Something should be done.
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Who are you talking about? I dont really think anyone is trolling anything. We are discussing the knives and the issues related to them. Its not always praise on a discussion forum. And aside from a few random snide comments I think most people are being pretty decent. Everyone has different sensitivity levels I guess.
 
PURPLEDC said:
we arent comparing it to the C. We are comparing it to the A which had M390, a more intricate machining pattern as well as a semi integral backspacer which increased Titanium waste by 50%. Those sold on bladehq for $250............ Who doesnt know what they are talking about again? You also completely ignore the difference of cost of manufacturing in china vs the USA.
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There is no big difference in cost of manufacturing... quality tools cost what quality tools cost. If they're importing quality tools and materials from the US, Germany and Japan their cost is the same as an american shop. The difference it the cost of labor. If he wants to pay employees a decent wage perhaps we should let him. Chinese products are cheap because they're larger tolerance and low quality and mass produced by sweatshop labor. Here you're looking at a quality product that's made on a much smaller scale by people who clearly get payed enough to care about tolerances. It just happens to be in China so everyone has a fit over the price. Quality is quality no matter where it's made.

I'm sure the horizon A was just cheaper because he didn't have a reputation and wanted to get the name out there. It's a pretty common practice. Many many business don't even plan on being profitable for the first 2 years.

All I'm saying is that this price is more than competitive with other brands out there. I just feel bad for the guy posting something awesome and then there's 27 posts telling him to make it cheaper.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
Who are you talking about? I dont really think anyone is trolling anything. We are discussing the knives and the issues related to them. Its not always praise on a discussion forum. And aside from a few random snide comments I think most people are being pretty decent. Everyone has different sensitivity levels I guess.
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Every China knife thread has varying levels of anti China knife sentiment. If I'm the only one that notices and think it's tired and annoying, then carry on I guess (def not referring to you of course).
 
deathofallthings said:
There is no difference in cost of manufacturing... quality tools cost what quality tools cost. If they're importing quality tools and materials from the US, Germany and Japan their cost is the same as an american shop. The difference it the cost of labor. If he wants to pay employees a decent wage perhaps we should let him. Chinese products are cheap because they're larger tolerance and low quality and mass produced. Here you're looking at a quality product that's made on a much smaller scale that just happens to be in China. This is not a product made for walmart.

I'm sure the horizon A was just cheaper because he didn't have a reputation and wanted to get the name out there. It's a pretty common practice. Many many business don't even plan on being profitable for the first 2 years.
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Im just going to ask we agree to disagree. We are too far apart on our beliefs to ever reach a mutual understanding. I simply think you are making to many justifying assumptions.
 
You can say what ever you want but in the end the market will decide what it's worth. If people buy it at 400. I guess it's worth it no matter what I say, if they don't it's not. Simple as that.

Mike
 
PURPLEDC said:
Im just going to ask we agree to disagree. We are too far apart on our beliefs to ever reach a mutual understanding. I simply think you are making to many justifying assumptions.
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There are many assumptions on both sides, none of us work there. All I'm saying is the price and quality seem competitive with similar knives made else where.
 
deathofallthings said:
There are many assumptions on both sides, none of us work there. All I'm saying is the price and quality seem competitive with similar knives made else where.
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Ok, agree to disagree it is.

Stays Sharp said:
Just to add...

I find it funny that you said that to me when I've pressed on that point dozens upon dozens of times on these forums :p
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Yeah, for me I guess I look at it like this. We arent always going to agree with a companies decisions. I think we should be able to voice those opinions. But I think we should do our best to maintain composure and avoid being flat out rude when expressing those opinions. I struggle with that balance a lot. So if my comments on Reate seem to be overly negative to anyone Id like to state for the record its not my intent. I just became a fan of the company for a certain reason and I just hope that reason keeps me as a fan.
 
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Stays Sharp said:
Why are members continuously alowed to troll Reate and Kizer threads?.... Is it because Reate doesn't have their own subforum? I've read that Kizer wants to open a subforum, what's the hold-up? What's stopping them?
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Kizer does have its own BF manufacturer forum now but it hasn't stopped some people from bringing up the same old tired political or socio-economical arguments.
 
You'd be the last on the list as to who my post was intended for. Just in general for me. I wasn't criticzing the open discussion, I welcome it. I was totally on a different topic from what this recent page was about apparantly. I just read through the whole thread this morning.

It's the open bashing, underhand suttle bashing, trolling, etc etc on these China based knife threads I was referring to. My thing is, if you don't like it, leave the thread for people who do.
 
While I think that the $400 price of the Horizon-D is reasonable given the very high quality, finish, materials, etc. I also think that it would've been prudent of Reate to have priced it more like $325 to be in line with their growth path and building a customer base. At $400 there are a lot more options and unfortunately many will pass on even giving the Horizon-D a chance. That's a pity!
 
PURPLEDC said:
we arent comparing it to the C. We are comparing it to the A which had M390, a more intricate machining pattern as well as a semi integral backspacer which increased Titanium waste by 50%. Those sold on bladehq for $250............ Who doesnt know what they are talking about again? You also completely ignore the difference of cost of manufacturing in china vs the USA.

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We're not trolling , but stating fact. Not much difference between this knife and the other one except for price and fake timascus. Calling them high end is marketing making the price justifiable by the purchaser.
 
Since the pricing of these Chinese knives is such an issue, does anyone actually know who is responsible for the new pricing for these Reates? Is it Reate themselves? Maybe David can explain why the price hike to everyone, if he feels like it. You can always save that $400 for the 4 LEs coming out latter that you don't have to ask why they are so expensive because they are made in the USA.
 
Jasonsdman said:
Since the pricing of these Chinese knives is such an issue, does anyone actually know who is responsible for the new pricing for these Reates? Is it Reate themselves? Maybe David can explain why the price hike to everyone, if he feels like it. You can always save that $400 for the 4 LEs coming out latter that you don't have to ask why they are so expensive because they are made in the USA.
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The prices of the production knives they make for makers is up to that maker. David stated that reate themselves set the price for these newer high end series. He simply stated this was the lowest price they decided they could get to.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Let me ask you this. I make two knives. same materials. Same fit and finish. Just a slightly different build method. I label one "high end" Is that knife worth more now because I called it "high end"?
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I dunno, did the knife sell out at the higher price point?? Cuz if it did, I guess it's not overpriced.

All we've heard about Reate for the past year or two has been "great value" and "you get a lot for what you pay". Well now maybe Reate is moving into a new category or whatever you'd call it. Maybe now, you're still getting quality materials, but paying for, in my opinion, better designs, and the fact that the brand has increased in popularity (due largely to word-of-mouth about their outstanding quality)
Reate is on the come up. People are miffed that the company is moving up and no longer solely producing $199 Ti framelock folders.
I think it's fine that the price if finally catching up with the quality, so now people can review Reate knives on their own merit, not just as "a good bargain" knife, but just "a good knife".
 
R&D , availability of materials, suppliers. Exchange rates. Things change all the time and so do the prices of goods. Benchmade just came out with a gold class $1000 folder, I posted a thread and never got a response. My question was what made it cost a $1000. It was a curious question and I thought maybe it was the special Damascus blade? A used Horizon D just came up for sale in CF and it sold pretty quick so they are persons who believe it is worth it. I bought a used Hills and was very surprised at the quality so I am not surprised of the new prices and direction that Reate is going. It was probably in their long term business plan anyway. If you don't like it don't buy it.
 
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