In support of the Hasiya

[Karda]

I also have said for traditional blades (if you want to use what Nepalis use) get only certain HI models (early Foxy Follies, ligher BAS', Tamang Knives, KLVUK, for example). Traditional as defined in size, weight, and thickness. As long as the above is made clear we are all good.

Believe it or not. HI khukuri are sold and in use in Nepal by many Nepalis.
Our good Friend Sgt. Khadka not only produced for us, but also sold his trademark and renowned Bonecutter model in Nepal thru his own Arun.
To say that our Khukuri are not used by Nepalis and are not traditional is uninformed opinion and patently false.

 

[sweetcostarica]

Nepalis are buying and using 2 to 3 lbs Bonecutters, BirGorkha Kothimoda, 20", 9/16" thick, 3 or 4 pound Ang Kholas, and Ganga Ram Specials approaching 3 pounds? Using them all day, everyday for wood work and generally? These Himalayan Imports models cost at least $150 to $300 USD! I did not think Nepalis could afford this kind of expense or even used them as much anymore in Kathmandu.

This is hard to believe but in respect to you Karda I have to verify your statements for myself. If this is true then I will personally apologize to every forum, every person I ever said: Nepalis don't use these type of expensive to them Kukri, large, heavy, non-traditional blades.

 

[Gehazi]

you read the whole part about uncle bill's mission statement ? that he overcharges and overbuilds knives specifically to provide good lives to a variety of people attached to the company?I mean it still touches me when i read about him and yangdu getting started and making sure every person they can gets a job carrying this or that or doing little things that dont necessarily need doing, and he proudly says that cost is in the knives as well as the quality workmanship.
KVLUK knives are clearly marked and about the right price range, and probably used as advertised, the other models are half 'joy of seeing huge knife' and half ' i feel good because im buying a product people work hard on and believe in,and aren't mistreated making'
Plus for rituals that required killing an animal with a swift decapitation i can see a nepali getting one of the larger models(that being largely irrelevant though to why I like buying from HI and why i think they have superior product!)

 

[Karda]

Nepalis are buying and using 2 to 3 lbs Bonecutters, BirGorkha Kothimoda, 20", 9/16" thick, 3 or 4 pound Ang Kholas, and Ganga Ram Specials approaching 3 pounds? Using them all day, everyday for wood work and generally? These Himalayan Imports models cost at least $150 to $300 USD! I did not think Nepalis could afford this kind of expense or even used them as much anymore in Kathmandu.

This is hard to believe but in respect to you Karda I have to verify your statements for myself. If this is true then I will personally apologize to every forum, every person I ever said: Nepalis don't use these type of expensive to them Kukri, large, heavy, non-traditional blades.
View attachment 369871

You are aware of the Caste System, Right?
Believe it or not there are Nepali people whom do have money. Money enough to buy what they choose.
Villager people will buy from their local Kami and buy villager style khukuri.
You seem to focus on small ideas and lose focus of the larger picture. You seem to listen to people with narrow ideas and ideals. People whom espouse misinformation and pass it along to people whom will listen and take their words as gospel.
Perhaps it would do you some good to do thorough research of larger pictures before making blanket statements as you often do.

 

[Bawanna]

There must be some history or bad blood here. I'll be over on the Mini AK Bowie thread if anyone is looking for me.

 

[sweetcostarica]

you read the whole part about uncle bill's mission statement ? that he overcharges and overbuilds knives specifically to provide good lives to a variety of people attached to the company?I mean it still touches me when i read about him and yangdu getting started and making sure every person they can gets a job carrying this or that or doing little things that dont necessarily need doing, and he proudly says that cost is in the knives as well as the quality workmanship.
KVLUK knives are clearly marked and about the right price range, and probably used as advertised, the other models are half 'joy of seeing huge knife' and half ' i feel good because im buying a product people work hard on and believe in,and aren't mistreated making'
Plus for rituals that required killing an animal with a swift decapitation i can see a nepali getting one of the larger models(that being largely irrelevant though to why I like buying from HI and why i think they have superior product!)

Gehazi that is a very good thing Himalayan Imports is doing for their workers and families. And God will bless them for this. So I hope no one thinks I am trying to somehow ruin HI's business. I am just talking about the best product for the job. We started discussing the Himalayan sickle and which model was the better out of three (3) Himalayan Imports blades displayed by a forum member. But the talk got serious at some point and now we are on supporting Kamis and their families after touching traditional vs non traditional Kukris, other makers of Kukris, Bonecutters, Ang Kholas, Ganga Ram Specials, and other HI Kukris sold in Nepal topics.

All I'm saying is I prefer the traditional Hasiya No.2 over the others. If they go on sale I'll be happy to buy some, HI's Hasiya will be supported, the Kamis will have work plus income, and all is good. Now I'm in a position were I might have to apologize to a part of the population of earth a statement I thought was true .

I guess it's all part of life and we are learning something so it can't be all bad.

 

[Gehazi]

there is no ill will here my man, I just love HI, and im glad we share that love for them and for the same reasons -- I will still buy all the models they offer ! ( life permitting)-- but we should all be reminded to look at the larger ecology in any given situation, humans are born with attention based awareness so our sweet sweet brains don't have to be 400 kgs , we constantly have to be mindful to process the information, your traditionalist khukri love is the kind of thing that got KVLUKs offered and i own two now ! and they have seen more work than all my other khukri's already! so I definitely appreciate your view, as well as karda's , there is no need to run bawannas !
Its pretty awesome to have been here while we are, its a rare honor to be alive right here on this earth, and im glad to share it with all of you , and legacies of all those who came before us .

 

[sweetcostarica]

You are aware of the Caste System, Right?
Believe it or not there are Nepali people whom do have money. Money enough to buy what they choose.
Villager people will buy from their local Kami and buy villager style khukuri.
You seem to focus on small ideas and lose focus of the larger picture...

Karda everyone knows there are rich people in all countries of the world. They have the money to buy whatever they want. I'm not one of them and when I say, "In Nepal non-traditional Kukri are not used" or "that Ganga Ram Special" isn't used, I'm talking about being used by the common man, the butcher, the farmer, the soldier, the average mother in her garden. These are the Nepalis, the workers and that is why I do believe they would use the simple, basic traditional Kukri. It would be great if they could afford the HI products we foreigners buy but that's not practical for them anyway is it.

When you say "Villager people will buy from their local Kami and buy villager style khukuri." Yes, that is what they buy. That is what I want to buy and the expensive non-traditional type is what we foreigner are mostly offered. I as a traditionalist would like more traditional Kukri but being thoughtful and respectful I understand customers who want the non-traditional.

Thanks for clearing things up Karda.

 

[sweetcostarica]

Said by Gehazi
Its pretty awesome to have been here while we are, its a rare honor to be alive right here on this earth, and i'm glad to share it with all of you , and legacies of all those who came before us.

Thanks Gehazi. Those are very wise words.

 

[Karda]

You still apparently don't quite get it, Sweetcostrica.
When Ganga Ram Bishwakarma was still with us, he regularly also sold his own trademark khukuri to the villagers and rich Nepali's alike. His khukuri were sought after in his own village. He came to us (HI) at an old age and showed us how to carry on his legacy. He was taken care of by HI when he could not produce to earn his own living.

To say that the Ganga Ram Special is not used in Nepal is also a falsehood. To say that the khukuri HI makes are not traditional is also a falsehood.

I've tried to be nice and contacted you privately to explain how you tend to skew things with your opinions and potentially hurt HI's business with them. You continue to try my patience with you in regards to the things you say here. I've implored you to post respectfully here and to not bring your opinions however truthful you feel they are, from that other forum to here. I've also implored you to cease talking down HI's product on said forum. I've implored you to cease these things yet you feel compelled to force your opinions in this forum. I've already made you aware of what may happen when my patience reaches it's end.

I apologize to the forum for this seeming unpleasantness. Those that know me know that I do not like to have this sort of thing on the forum. I also rarely act without good merit and when I do it is a long time in coming.

 

[Bawanna]

Color me the impartial bystander dumber than the dirt I roll on but from my perspective I honestly don't see why this thread has evolved the way it has.

I don't see the negativity or HI bashing mentioned. And all this over a scykle. I'm just at a loss. Perhaps I missed the first season and it matters not. No explanations needed on my part, just mentioning what I see here.

 

[sweetcostarica]

I don't understand either Bawanna. Post respectfully, talking down HI's products, force my opinions? What are you talking about Karda? I disagree with you on a type of sickle and the conversations balloon to various other things where I also put out my thoughts even offering to apologize if I made a false statement. Which I am still checking on the same Ganga Ram Specials, Ang kholas, nicely polished HI Kukri we foreigners buy are sold to the common Nepali citizens (the farmer, soldier, Joe down the street), I know the rich Nepali can get the ones we foreigners buy. That's common sense. You implied Nepalis (the common man) buys the heavier, bigger exported ones. I want to know if that is true. And you think I am testing your patience? Wow.

Said by Karda to say that the khukuri HI makes are not traditional is also a falsehood. Remember we are talking the whole package: thickness, weight, complete dimensions taking in account the handmade variances. But how can this be a falsehood or lie when in your own words Karda you said: "They also do not understand that Himalayan Imports produces it's own style of product. It copies no one. HI has never claimed to make historically accurate reproduction khukuri. Those product we do sell that are patterned after historical khukuri are made to our specification and no one elses."

I am sorry you feel this way about normal questions and curiosity. But if I am to be black listed I just want everyone to know I do love HI traditional products (in weight, thickness, & dimensions). Also I believe if the company keeps selling them they will keep the spirit of the Nepali Khukuri alive and that will support the industry better than anything else.
It was a fun ride :thumbup:.

 

[Karda]

No, I did not imply that the villager peoples of Nepal buy our expensive khukuri.
Common sense is enough to know that they could not afford to.

I did imply that many of our khukuri are derived from those villager khukuri, which many of them are.
Some are direct copies and some are embellished to our specs. Some are also wholly new product created by these village Kamis for HI and are the product of their experience and expertise. Just as we give our customers free reign to design, we also have encouraged our workers to do so. Rajkumar (the prince kami) has proven to be exceedingly innovative and imaginative. Ganga Ram, Kancha Kami, The Good Sgt. and many others over the almost 30 years of business have all played a role in some way in this business. All are or were village Kamis at some point in their lives. Khukuri making is their lifes blood as well as their Caste. HI only wishes to serve as an outlet for them to expose their crafting to a broader spectrum of clientele that their home country can provide. To provide them appropriate compensation for their expertise, more than they would get in their villages and home country. To provide they and their familes to access to things they normally would have very little access to in Nepal, such as medical care, education for their children, pride in their being a biswakarma.

Now, don't act so surprised about what I said in my previous post here, you've already been made aware privately about all of this. You know exactly what i'm talking about, as I've already had these conversations with you. WE are all acutely aware of your love of the traditional villager and of the military style khukuri. Some of us are also aware of all these things also.

 

[sweetcostarica]

This is a good reply. Thank you. I know exactly what your talking about and you knew what I was saying earlier about the local traditional Kukris sold to villagers (and city folk), and the different non-traditional Kukri sold to westerners (and Nepali rich).

It is what it is. Yes I have been influenced by others Kukri, Barong, Parang, Golok, and Hasiya manufacturers. But this is an enlightened path because by knowing what is traditional to the Mong, what does lightweight mean to the Filipino, what is too thick for the Malaysian, or what is the best Kukri for Bamboo in Nepali? Knowing these thing can help us make informed buys and have the proper tool for the job. For fun anything goes .

I'm rambling on again, goodnight guys.

 

[Gehazi]

yeah its pretty wild to think about the enormous amount of variety in the traditional tools and weapons of the cultures of the world, has anyone ever heard of a aceeh klewang from sumatra? I have one and just now figured out what it is , but cant figure if it was meant to be a killing thing or just a jungle plant destroyer

i just like the second , maybe HI could make us a pair of these ?

 

[Steve Tall]

I respect SCR's views and applaud his stated intention to purchase "Hasiya number 2" when available. (This is a thread "in support of the Hasiya", after all.)
However...

...In fact the first Hasiya (see picture below) has been said to be of the tourist/export type and not very useable but as said I have no experience with it so I can not confirm that.

I think this type of comment is known as "hearsay" (generally worthless in US courts, at least) and arguably does not belong in a "showroom floor" forum such as this when it disparages the product.

...putting HI and 'tourist blade" in the same sentence is travesty...

This was said with humor but there is some truth to this, I think. Calling HI knives "tourist type" is an insult, IMO, and clearly wrong. Sure, HI is export-oriented (implied in the name Himalayan Imports), but they aren't made to shoddy standards and sold as souvenirs to people who care more about price than about quality. Writing something that's insulting, even if it's presented as hearsay, can surely push people's buttons (mine included).

...Himalayan Imports does not make "tourist quality" product. It also carries the best warranty and service, before and after sales, something that any of the others cannot claim...

This is right on the mark, IMO.


That all said, here is something dug up from HI archives that helps explain, for me at least, why HI knives generally don't replicate exactly what the Nepalese are using in their villages:

"This is the first hasiya from BirGorkha. Made and marked by Sanu. Gelbu said make us a couple of hasiyas like you see in your village. Sanu: Absolutely not. I will not make a filthy, nasty hasiya like you see in our village. I would be ashamed to put our logo on it and sign with my mark. But, I will make you a couple of the best hasiyas ever made in Nepal and you can send these to Bena.

-- Bill Martino, 6/22/01, quoted from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/158011-The-first-HI-hasiya-Pix-and-deal


This first HI hasiya went to a forumite named SamuraiDave. Maybe he will be able to post a photo. Below is a post from him about his impressions:

First Impressions of First Hasiya

"The first thing that I thought when I saw the HI box is how cute it looked. Upon opening I was amazed at the craftsmanship of the blade itself. It possesses a razor sharp blade, slightly dulling towards the tip that somehow reminds me of the claw on the foot of a veloceraptor. A small carnivorous dinosaur that hunted in groups and that killed prey with a single large claw on each foot. (See: Jurassic Park). About the size of a Ka-bar it could very well be employed as an extremely effective weapon. Not as large as some of the Kamas I have seen out there it is still a great choice of weapon for martial arts, very light (6oz according to Uncle) and lively. The uniqueness of this knife is what impresses me the most. If you want a truly unique blade I suggest you send your money to Uncle. I have never handled a knife like this one, the feel is amazing, and I think it may truly be ALIVE! I haven’t had this thing five minutes and it has permanently taken up residence on my worktable, it screams to be held. It is too interesting a piece to place on my wall, and I can tell that it desires the attention of belonging where I do everything.

I have not tested the blade, I will have to think of something as to be sure not to hurt my little friend…What am I saying?!? This is a Sanu!!!!

The handle seems a little bit small, and a larger teardrop or oval shape might be better for the martial arts crowd. I am not complaining though the small length and diameter of the handle emphasizes how quick and lively the blade really is.

I don’t know about you guys, but when I have the money I will definitely order another.
Bottom line is that I am in love, and this Hasiya is truly perfect."

-- SamuraiDave, 6/27/01, from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/158000-First-Impressions-of-First-Hasiya

 

[Gehazi]

touching post steve, I love to see bill quoted.

 

[Karda]

Thank You Steve.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time SCR has devalued a good thread with his opinions, disparaged certain types or weights of khukuri, caused controversy due to listening to the person whom calls Uncle Bill a Liar and a Con Man, or tried plugging that (his favorite) khukuri maker here.
I've been brought to the point where I will tolerate the behavior no more. I very much hate to be forced to call someone out or make anyone feel unwelcome, but people must understand that there are times when their opinion is not warranted and it is best to keep a closed mouth.

 

[Gehazi]

I am pretty much with karda on this, in the end this is the forum where customers of HI congregate, I don't want to hear about other companies.
we can't forget the guys who make the knives we all love actually depend on us buying those knives to make a life doing it, lets all encourage each other to support HI rather than compare to anyone else or to wonder about what is "authentic" enough for our particular group of whomever we are trying to impress at the time.

bill is a great soul , so it doesn't matter what lies are said.

 

[sweetcostarica]

I respect SCR's views and applaud his stated intention to purchase "Hasiya number 2" when available. (This is a thread "in support of the Hasiya", after all.)
However...

Thanks also Steve. You made lot's of good points and information for me read and consider. I still don't think I'm insulting Himalayan Imports by putting out my views and opinions about what I like and what I dislike threw study & some experience. Maybe I am just not as diplomatic as others. So I'll work on my people skills and try to keep my love for the traditional Kukri less... "in peoples faces".