"Social guns" uses and opinions.

well i'm leaving for work right now but a good place to start looking is at ar155.com they have some good links
 
Shotgunner, you've made quite the transition from your first post!

I've done hundreds of hours of research on AR builds including kits and components from Del-Ton, J&T distributing, Model 1 Sales, and most of the other major dealers.

The link to the CMMG bargain bin guns was a good link. It would be VERY hard to build an idenctical gun for that money. I have a factory CMMG rifle and it is excellent, but for the cost savings, the bargain bin guns have done nothing but impress me. Their comments about how they won't win beauty contests and may have scratches, etc. are mainly to cover their ass from whiners saying their gun is scratched. I have seen dozens of samples first hand and they were all in good condition. They don't come with a rear sight, so you would have to pick up one of those.

As far as kits with most all the upgrades, Pete at Legal Transfers is good to deal with. With this kit all you need to get is a lower receiver. You can get whatever brand you want from a good mrf and be fine. I bought 2 stripped lowers from Essential Arms for $100 each and they are excellent. Here's the kit for $638.

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

And Essential Arms lowers....

http://essentialarms.com/ieLOWERSANDPARTS.HTML


Anyway, just some more ideas. You and Mrs. S have been great around here so if there is anything AR related you have specific questions on, feel free to email me any time. I don't claim to know it all, but I've done the same thing you are now. Lots of late nights researching! Or just post it here and we'll all really encourage you to get the black rifle disease. Beware, I came here from the BRD and have realized RATs are much less expensive!
 
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Please let me chime in for my $0.02. I'm no Lawyer. First and foremost if you build a gun you are the one they will go after if there is a "miss Fire" (deep pockets) just like if you use hot hand loads or any other home brew ammo. If it is a factory built gun/ammo and it has a problem then they go after the builder of the firearm/ammo maker. AR,AK,Minis all are good guns but just don't get caught up in a legal battle by using one. Hell even a just shooting may cost you in the range of $10K to get out of(this is what it cost a friend of mine before be found not guilty). For my pick Rem.pump 12ga, nice 308,30-06 or my favorite 300 win mag I bought a Savage 110 bolt 300 mag ported barrel $625 and it's an Elk hunting gun I just happen to have.
 
Adaman04 is right on with Pete from Legal Transfers-that's where I got my Stag varmint upper. Shotgunner like I said take your time in your build and you'll end up with a great AR at a great price !
 
jnanson said:
Please let me chime in for my $0.02. I'm no Lawyer. First and foremost if you build a gun you are the one they will go after if there is a "miss Fire" (deep pockets) just like if you use hot hand loads or any other home brew ammo. If it is a factory built gun/ammo and it has a problem then they go after the builder of the firearm/ammo maker. AR,AK,Minis all are good guns but just don't get caught up in a legal battle by using one. Hell even a just shooting may cost you in the range of $10K to get out of(this is what it cost a friend of mine before be found not guilty). For my pick Rem.pump 12ga, nice 308,30-06 or my favorite 300 win mag I bought a Savage 110 bolt 300 mag ported barrel $625 and it's an Elk hunting gun I just happen to have.
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Well, like the old saying goes, " Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6".

I'll gladly sit in jail as long as my kids and wife are sleeping safely in their beds.

That's all bridges to be cross when I arrive and they aren't even built yet. Right now, in the immediate, there are people in the night who what what I have and don't give two shits about my life of the lives of my family.

I have to face them before I have the chance to face a judge or jury and if I lose to them, I never get the second chance. If that black rifle gives me an upperhand on that first battle, I'll take the lower hand on the second.

Guy's, thank you all very much for the advice, please keep it coming.
 
shotgunner11 said:
I'm kind of in the middle of a personal delemma and would like the thoughts and opinions of this fine group of survivors in training.

Dispite my screen name and it's obvious overtones, I'm not really much of a gun guy. I own a few and know how to handle them to an extent, go to the range from time to time but money doesn't allow me to be a really regular shooter.

I have been through basic law enforcement firearms training and can handle a handgun with above average civilian ability.

I have used and trained with a scattergun extensively. That's where I've always focused my firearms training. Firstly, because I think that the 12ga. pump action is one of, if not THE best and most versitile defensive tool available to the general public. Secondly, because I was raised with them and they are natural to me and cheaper to practice with. Lastly, I weigh 250 pounds and could always handle them better than alot of smaller statured folks so they seemed like a good fit.

Now on to my serious weak point. The defensive rifle. I'm embarrassed to say it, but I have almost NO training in that area. Being that I'm left handed, I've shot lever action hunting rifles my entire life and been happy with them and thought that they provided all the ability that I needed but lately, as I progress in my preparedness, I feel like perhaps I'm doing myself and my family a dis-service but not training a bit more and having a more capable social rifle around.

Right now, I have no rifle aside from a .22cal. bolt action. A glaring oversite on my part as I traded out my last rifle to TTD for a beautiful revolver.

So, looking to correct this problem, I've been looking at whats available.

Since I'm pretty short on cash (who isn't), I'm trying to find something in the $500 range (thats the value of the compound bow I'll sell or trade for it) and in a caliber that won't break the bank to shoot some and stock up on some ammo for a rainy (or Zombie filled) day.

Not huge on black rifles. Not only is a decent AR out of my price range, but I don't really care much for them. I'm a Glock guy, I like stuff to go bang every time and not have to mess with it much. Also, being a "social" rifle, less tacticool looking is a plus. Flat black, pistol grips, light rails. Well, I keep a gun in my truck most of the time and thats just not what I want a cop to find if he decides to look.

Since my budget won't really allow a Socom 16, I've been thinking about a Ruger Mini. I don't really care much for the .223 caliber, to me, .22's are for squirrells not people, but I don't see a ton of GOOD options.

So, any suggestions for this old fashioned fart to come into the 20th century?
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I got my FAL for 750 dollars, IMO it's more reliable and capable than the venerable AK47. To field clean, flip a lever, pull out the action with two fingers and it falls apart in your hands. Time-2 seconds. Putting it back together takes about 5 seconds. .308/7.62mm NATO with a gas compensation system, I can put commercial 175 grain .308 and 147 grain crap Greek ammo in the same magazine and the compensator allows me to put both rounds in the same group without adjusting the sights. Made out of quality forged steel. If shit REALLY hits the fan, you can always bumpfire it at 400 rounds a minute ;)
 
PS Minis are notorious for point of impact shift. Once you put a few rounds down that light barrel it heats up and warps REAL bad.
 
I started on an AR platform ($900), and $500 later in accessories, picked up an AK ($350[....although that was a couple years ago]). Haven't looked back since. Still have & enjoy my AR, but when the BOB goes on my shoulder and the safe comes open, it's the AK that'll get picked up, no question. As for accuracy, it does the job pretty well, as it's not intended to win a bench-rest competition. I'm in love with the fact that that it ALWAYS goes boom when the trigger is pulled. Always. As for what the gun looks like, if a weapon is sending lead towards a target with ill intentions, the shape/color/perception of the weapon is the last thing on my mind.

Good luck on your build, you'll enjoy it. And don't put much of that wonderfully affordable 'Wolf' ammo through your new AR....it'll get tired of how they taste pretty quickly, lol.
 
raydermonk said:
...... And don't put much of that wonderfully affordable 'Wolf' ammo through your new AR....it'll get tired of how they taste pretty quickly, lol.
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Thats one of the few areas of my life where I don't care to skimp.

I'll be buying the Remington stuff one box at a time just like I do for the 9mm and the 12ga.
 
Saiga 7.62X39.....Real ak built in Russia!!! Legal eveywhere and takes Hi-cap mags.......& less than $500
 
jnanson said:
Please let me chime in for my $0.02. I'm no Lawyer. First and foremost if you build a gun you are the one they will go after if there is a "miss Fire" (deep pockets) just like if you use hot hand loads or any other home brew ammo. If it is a factory built gun/ammo and it has a problem then they go after the builder of the firearm/ammo maker. AR,AK,Minis all are good guns but just don't get caught up in a legal battle by using one. Hell even a just shooting may cost you in the range of $10K to get out of(this is what it cost a friend of mine before be found not guilty). For my pick Rem.pump 12ga, nice 308,30-06 or my favorite 300 win mag I bought a Savage 110 bolt 300 mag ported barrel $625 and it's an Elk hunting gun I just happen to have.
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As faw as i know there is no such case of this in ILL. And if there was ILL being the liberal state it is whould not allow me to have done this. Please if you have anything on this post me a link for it. So in closeing if you live in taxas you should be fine because of there laws.
 
rmc85 said:
Your the first person I've seen say that.
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actually, there is some truth to that comment, I personally owned a mini 14. it really is not that heat changes it that much but "it plays a small part" it has more to do with the very skinny barrel, it is called barrel whip or Barrel Harmonics. all of the mini's I have shot have this issue to an extent, I think the ruger mini 30 is not as bad as the mini 30 has a thicker barrel.

notice the new target model offered has a harmonic dampener on a bull barrel.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/mini14TargetRifleHogue/features.html
 
In alot of my reading I've found that the newer Minis have found ways around the accuracy issues. Still not perfect but the gun would outshoot me so no worries.

I've kind of walked away from the Mini and decided on an AR anyway.
 
Shotgunner11 I did not say don't get a "Black Gun". I love Black guns my Rem 870 is black. The AR 15 is a great gun and I've had several. Just be aware of making one from various parts. Factory gun and factory ammo is the best choice for home/personal defense. This I learned from my CCW class " do not ever use hand loads to defend yourself. I've heard the saying judged by 12 not carried by 6 and I totally agree but when you sit in court defending yourself for a just shooting spending mega bucks just to buy some Lawyer a new Rolex/Mercedes then still have to explain why your hot loads in your home made weapon went through and through the bad guy and into the by stander. I'm sure you will make a great choice with all the responses here. It is our right for now to bear arms.
 
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AR builds from quality spec parts will not be a problem. With research you'll find that there are only a few companies that make their own parts in house. Lots of mfrs get the same parts and brand them with their name.

Factory guns are great, I have one, but a GOOD build loses you nothing.

Shotgunner, the price of .223 is starting to come down slowly. Maybe by the time you get your build done it'll be even better. I've learned to make the best of my ammo and range sessions. More drills and exercises and less blasting cans, etc.
 
adaman04 said:
AR builds from quality spec parts will not be a problem. With research you'll find that there are only a few companies that make their own parts in house. Lots of mfrs get the same parts and brand them with their name.

Factory guns are great, I have one, but a GOOD build loses you nothing.

Shotgunner, the price of .223 is starting to come down slowly. Maybe by the time you get your build done it'll be even better. I've learned to make the best of my ammo and range sessions. More drills and exercises and less blasting cans, etc.
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Hell yea, I never waste ammo, that's what a .22 rimfire is for.:D
 
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