Spyderco "mislead" about price increases!!!

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I agree that the price increases are a bit much. The RAT is a great example of your point. You won't find much dissent for anything Spyderco does on Bladeforums. It's mostly earned, but as you've noticed the discussion just will not happen.
 
Ganzofan said:
Well I do have a life outsider of forum posting...

So far the responses I read through this thread can be summed up into four categories:

1. Most responses are personal attacks against me or my screen name

2. Then there are responses with attacks on China, their ethics, slave labor, etc... It's possible other Chinese knife makers operate unethically or getting government subsidies, ok it's possible and maybe that's why TwoSun can offer much more on the value proposition. However this further proves my point, why is the China made Tenacious more expensive than the Taiwan made Rat 1?

3. Some tried to explain cost increases because of increase in labor, inflation, higher cost of US operation, cost to fight counterfeiting, advertising cost (i have yet to see any commercials on knife companies, and Spyderco benefits from direct advertising without the need for market research because of forums like this and Spyderco's own forum, it's a competitive advantage that's not existent in other industries so don't tell me about your assumption of "market research cost") etc... Note, Ontario is also a US company and we can assume they incur all the cost Spyderco does. Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

4. Other responses are in one form or another fan response from knife nuts that lacks any logic to the argument... "spyderco is worth it", "I'm willing to pay whatever Spyderco asks", "Sal's a great guy and listens to his fans", "Spyderco is great, Ganzo is garbage", "I'm carrying Spydercos today, post your pics if you are too" etc... I mean come on, really? I said in the original post that I think Spyderco is worth whatever price anyone is willing to pay for it as everything else in life.

Furthermore, I remember from my college cost accounting class that manufacturing overhead costs for an unchanged product goes down with time. And Tenacious would long have reach the breakeven point. The machine setup cost, blue print cost, worker training cost, specialty machine and die cast cost etc... would of all have been recouped by now resulting in the Tenacious costing less now than it did 12 years ago to produce. (I concede labor cost probably went up but as we know, labor in China is dirt cheap, President Trump has told us so repeatedly)

And please please read your own post before posting and stop posting stuff that makes it seems like Tenacious is not made in China, you are sabotaging your own argument.

Let's bring another two knives into the mix, Shaman and Slysz Bowie. Fans complained about their cost and compared it to other knives with similar materials made in their respective U.S and Taiwan facilities. Sal punched his key board "the rounded handles cost more to make" and fans grumbled but otherwise shut up and ate it up. I'm sure it cost more to "round the handles", let's not even bring in other knives from other makers with rounded handles and their relative price. Let's just talk about the increase in price because of the "rounded handles" relative to other similar knives made in the same facilities. When anyone tries to tell me a 70% to 100% increase in retail price is due to additional machining cost for rounded handles? I call BS on that one too... It's simple supply and demand, they're hot knives and people will pay more, that's it.
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Calling Spyderco a liar? That’s not a personal insult? Gotcha. Your screen name is a BIG part of this conversation, as we all know what ganzo really does. Suck it up buttercup, anything ganzo is not going to go over well here. Anyone that has been an active part of this should know this. Quit being so dense and arguing semantics of why the Tnacious costs more now.
 
Many knife companies are riding a wave of profitability as a result of their popularity and I doubt that Spyderco is any different. The first time that I heard the founder say that they don't make excessive profit, I was unconvinced. Anyone could make that claim, depending on how you define excessive. They make a product, set a price and you buy it or you don't. That's how business works.
 
kylemiller said:
I agree that the price increases are a bit much. The RAT is a great example of your point. You won't find much dissent for anything Spyderco does on Bladeforums. It's mostly earned, but as you've noticed the discussion just will not happen.
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It is not the same thing to have a discussion about the price increase of Spydero's products and calling Sal a liar because somewhere he said material costs went up.
 
kylemiller said:
I agree that the price increases are a bit much. The RAT is a great example of your point. You won't find much dissent for anything Spyderco does on Bladeforums. It's mostly earned, but as you've noticed the discussion just will not happen.
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The issue is the accusation that went along with it. If you want to discuss whether or not the Tenacious is overpriced, that's an extremely different conversation than if Spyderco is lying about their pricing model. Honestly, as an enthusiast, I'm not interested in dropping $50 on a Tenacious. That's more than I feel the knife is worth to me. That said, it's one of my most frequent recommendations to my friends that aren't into knives because it's well made, won't break the bank, the steel is an excellent choice for inexperienced sharpeners and it's backed by an extremely reputable company and warranty.
 
Eli Chaps said:
It is not the same thing to have a discussion about the price increase of Spydero's products and calling Sal a liar because somewhere he said material costs went up.
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This is true. There's an amount of formality that OP just blew right past.

Insipid Moniker said:
The issue is the accusation that went along with it. If you want to discuss whether or not the Tenacious is overpriced, that's an extremely different conversation than if Spyderco is lying about their pricing model. Honestly, as an enthusiast, I'm not interested in dropping $50 on a Tenacious. That's more than I feel the knife is worth to me. That said, it's one of my most frequent recommendations to my friends that aren't into knives because it's well made, won't break the bank, the steel is an excellent choice for inexperienced sharpeners and it's backed by an extremely reputable company and warranty.
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I'll recommend Byrd reliably to people who are function minded. I think the Cara Cara 2 is still hard to beat in that milieu, even at $30. The cutting geometry and Endura + finger choil handle ergos are fantastic. I've used one as my "house knife" for years with no mechanical sympathy and it's been excellent.
 
Ganzofan said:
While I would love to do that but I don't fall for group think and I like to challenge the status quo.

As President Trump taught us, there's great fallacy in group think. In 2016 everyone said he will loose, all the research and poll numbers said he will loose, yet he won against everyone's expectations.
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I can handle your Ganzo fanboyism, and arguments against Sal and Spyderco. I will not tolerate this crap. Welcome to my ignore list. Have a long, happy life there.
 
It's the hole.
You guys are paying extra for the freakin' hole!
 
Eleven pages of this crap going on speaks volumes to the civility of members and the leniency of mods on this forum. You are just abusing. And this is not the first time by far. Repeat offender you are.
 
Spyderco can charge whatever they want. Free market and all . Supply and demand.
If you don’t like it, vote with your wallet and buy something else. Done, easy .
 
I skipped from page 1 to 8, and I assume the conversation has pretty much stayed on the cost of materials, production, advertising, etc. Has anyone chimed in about the huge number of new models Spyderco makes every year? Price increases likely subsidize some of the cost of new machining and tooling for new designs at any one of the factories across the 8 countries in which Spyderco produces knives (if you still count the short lived German Herbst, otherwise it's 7), not to mention new steels and testing heat treatments. Ontario sticks to fewer designs and simpler materials. That costs less. Not to mention the costs of dealing with Amazon (WAY worse than Ganzo as a company) have heavily increased in 10 years. The fact that the Rat 1 hasn't increased is surprising. I don;t have a degree in international business, engineering, economics, or anything that has to do with making money so I can't say why any of this is. All I can say is the RAT 1 is a great $25-30 knife and the Tenacious is a great $40-50 knife and I'd be fine carrying either.

Now, please return to the shit posting and mod stomping. It's better than Netflix!
 
I like Cats.
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if u don't like spyderco prices then don't carry a spyderco. they can charge whatever they want to charge because they make a superior product....I've got $50 spydies and $350 spydies and I've only ever paid that kind of money for a spyderco knife. can't say I own a ganzo can't say I care what anybody charges if I don't want to pay that price I don't buy it...if u want quality u pay for quality and that's just about everything in life
 
Spiderco, has essentially lost me as a customer by pricing themselves "Out of Reach"!

When I can buy a Benchmade for less, Why do anything more than make disgusted
comments and move on...

One knife they made that I was interested in I entirely lost interest in when the specifications
revealed it was made from 8Cr13MoV, In WHAT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE do they Expect me
to pay more than $30-$40 for any knife made of "Budget steel" REGARDLESS of Supposed
"Superior workmanship"?

If I want 8Cr13MoV, I'll buy something from Kershaw!

Funds allowing I'll spend $110- $150 on a Griptillion or Bailout and NEVER suffer from "Buyers Remorse".

Further Spiderco's pricing FUELS the market in Counterfiet Spidies!

PLUS their tendency to make so MANY is the good steels ONLY as "SPRINT RUNS" Which further inflates their prices in the secondary market!

All I Really Want from them is a "Mille" or Para2 in S35VN as a REGULAR CATALOG ITEM for ~$150
 
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I believe it's disingenuous to accuse Sal Glesser of lying by claiming that he's offered materials costs as the sole reason for Spyderco's price increases. His own recent statements run contrary to that argument.

Sal Glesser said:
We work on relatively fixed margins. We sometimes make less for a variety of reasons, but I don't think we're using price "to make more profit". As I've said before, we believe that "charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you". We need to be able to keep our good people, buy equipment, grow, and try our best to please our customers.

We make a fairly large variety of designs and materials because our customer base is quite varied, and because we're able to, for which we feel fortunate.
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But neither do I buy the premise that Spyderco's knife prices are based entirely on manufacturing and other pragmatic factors, as Mr. Glesser's own statements counter that argument, as well.

Sal Glesser said:
As mentioned, we cover a broad price range and we have customers in the entire range. We try to give our customers what we think they will like. Some models have a smaller audience, either because of price or design. That doesn't stop us from offering our designs to those smaller audiences. They appreciate our efforts..

Knives like the Paysan, machined from a solid piece of Titan with very close tolerances, or the Drunken with it's spyder web liners, special texture and many years of the skill of the maker are specialty items to be sure. They are certainly difficult to make. That's why they cost more.

...

I will also say; Just because you cannot see the reason for the cost, doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.
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Sal Glesser said:
I was trying to explain the "why", because I understand it and you don't. . Is it what it is. We have customers that do want and do purchase the higher end. Certainly not as often as the lower end. Way more fords out there than Aston Martins.

I would also like to say that to complain about the price without ever handling or seeing the knife is a bit strange to me. Some folks will pay high prices for art that others just don't see.
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Clearly, he views at least some of his knives as works of art. And it seems that he feels that aesthetics, creative processes, and other intangibles can (and should) affect the pricing of those pieces.

In recent years, Spyderco has priced most of its quality models out of my comfort level. (I don't shop much at the low-budget end, so I'm not interested in the Byrd or Chinese-made lines.) I don't think it's useful to compare Amazon pricing, since Spyderco doesn't sell through Amazon any longer.

Sal Glesser said:
We haven't sold to Amazon for the past year. Yes, it does hurt us, but we couldn't get them to work with us and we don't think it fair for them to be our only dealer.
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So to demonstrate what I'm talking about, I'll use an apples-to-apples comparison from Cutlery Shoppe. This is the Military entry from a 2003 catalog.

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This is what a Military is offered for today.

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My salary did not increase by 94% in the past seventeen years; neither did the salaries of anyone I know. So no matter how you rationalize that price increase, I won't be buying a Military model casually these days because it's simply too high a percentage of my disposable income. Most other Spyderco knives are in the same category for me.


-Steve


P.S. - When did it become fashionable to post pictures of a knife from a brand you like in response to someone making an assertion with which you disagree? It's the Blade Forums equivalent of the four-year-old putting her fingers in her ears when she's told it's bedtime and responding with, "Nyah, nyah, nyah! I can't hear you!"
 
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