Spyderco Neck Knife?

Interesting idea for that military neck knife. But the H1 is a little unnecessary, IMO. It would be nice if offered, sure. But it takes a long time to go from the drawing board to production to the market for a big company like Spyderco.

I would have no problem taking a fixed blade with a super rust prone steel like 1095 in a kydex sheath for a 15 minute shower. I mean, you towel yourself off after the shower, right? Toweling off the knife, and blowing out the sheath should be more than enough upkeep after a shower, especially for a "naked" neck knife. It would discolor a bit, but that's to be expected. Now take that advice, and then realize there are a bunch of great stainless neck knives, too. And those shouldn't rust after a quick shower at all...

H1 is pretty phenomenal, and really great for certain uses like salt water, ridiculously dirty/wet work with no cleaning break, or even just a hard use folder that's not the easiest to clean out all the time. It just seems like the whole rust "problem" is hugely overplayed online, when even the most prone knives could absolutely serve you well on water duty.

I do actually really like the idea, though. And h1 adds that ability to just absolutely forget about it and needing no maintenance besides sharpening. I just think you do currently have a bunch of viable options.

I was just going to say that there are tons of neck-knives made out of AUS8 out there that are more than stain-resistant enough to survive showers/sweat for short periods of time as long as they were cleaned and dried afterwards.

Still, this Spyderco that Sal is talking about sort of has me very curious - any concept drawings or prototype pics yet?
 
There are several light-weight neck knives in stainless steel on the market already. Although it would be great if Spyderco turned something out, if you need something right away there are non-Spyderco knives that would do the trick.
 
I do have other neckers inbound. I was just thinking of an "ideal solution" for deployed or deploying service members. Ideal low-maintenance defensive tool from my favorite knife company. Hell, I'd love to see a nonprofit organization dedicated to getting sturdy folders or small fixed blades to troops. I think "Warrior's Arms" would be a good name, if it's not taken...
 
Hi Goodeyesniper,

Spyderco is not a very large company and most in-house designs are Eric's and my responsibility. Michael Janich has been assisting recently and we do have our collaborators, but they too require our time. Larger companies with mor than one designer and engineer are often much faster to market than smaller companies where everyone is spreading responsibilities betwen peopole and tasks.

John,

for discussion purposes, the Swicks and SPOTS were designed for no-nonsense self defense. the Perrin "index finger-hole" made it almost impossible to drop the knife. How effective is a good defense knife if you drop it when you need it? We were also thinking female, wich perhaps no experience or skill. Finger in the hole, grab and use a natural swinging motion of the arms. SSSsssssoooooooo, first question; would a finger hole be desired?

sal
 
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Sal,

Thanks for the reply. I know you stay busy, so thanks for your time.

I was just thinking deep choil, but a hole instead would work, too. I would like this to be usable by anyone*, but yes, to definitely include women. :) And, yes, a natural swinging motion of the arms is the way to use~ but should also be designed so a stab- because a stab will always happen eventually if the slashes alone don't do it- won't injure the defender. Again, the index finger hole will help make this safer.

*again, a hefty percentage of sexual assault in theater happen to males. These are crimes of opportunity, often perpetuated by local nationals or other ("friendly") military forces.

John
 
So what about something like a Swick 2 (leaf or warncliffe?) in H1. It would have to be very light (skeletonized). I always worry about sheath retention on neck knves for safety issues.

sal
 
Sal, I think the SWICKs are a little too much knife. Part of my thinking with wanting H1 is a knife that will ALWAYS be on the user. I can have a model to you before end of February, if you want to see it. I do agree with your caution with a neck knife~ goal is ultra light, here.

Edited to add: FB14P is a lot closer, weight-wise, than P2.
 
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John,

I'm certaily open to concepts and designs.

The latest Swicks are a 4th generation design with regards to Ergos. It would be hard to improve on in my opinion. We found that when the knife gets too small, twist control becomes a major issue. Again, failure in any way would decrease the efrectiveness of the tool. Have you tested your design?

sal
 
John,

I'm certaily open to concepts and designs.

The latest Swicks are a 4th generation design with regards to Ergos. It would be hard to improve on in my opinion. We found that when the knife gets too small, twist control becomes a major issue. Again, failure in any way would decrease the efrectiveness of the tool. Have you tested your design?

sal









While we are talking about swicks. Why were they discontinued, and also why did they not come with sheaths?.

Thanks Sal.....
 
Hi Jeepin,

The SPOTs were disco'd because of slow sales, either because of lack of interest or the higher price that Japanesemanufacture requires (strong Yen).

The Swicks were /are made because I want to continue the development of the concept. I believe it began with Fred Perrin's LeGriff. The Swicks are more of a "sprint" sold like the Mule Teams, no sheath or handle scales and they're sold direct from our outlet store to keep the price low. It also avoids creating confusion with our distributors for such short runs.

I really liked the LeGriff concept but felt the purchase and ergos could be improved. We keep refining the Swick with each version.
We also pay Fred Perrin a royalty fo the use of his inbdex finger hole concept.

sal
 
Hi Jeepin,

The SPOTs were disco'd because of slow sales, either because of lack of interest or the higher price that Japanesemanufacture requires (strong Yen).

The Swicks were /are made because I want to continue the development of the concept. I believe it began with Fred Perrin's LeGriff. The Swicks are more of a "sprint" sold like the Mule Teams, no sheath or handle scales and they're sold direct from our outlet store to keep the price low. It also avoids creating confusion with our distributors for such short runs.

I really liked the LeGriff concept but felt the purchase and ergos could be improved. We keep refining the Swick with each version.
We also pay Fred Perrin a royalty fo the use of his inbdex finger hole concept.

sal






Good to know. I personally think the Swick 2 is a great improvement over the Lagriffe. I am really looking forward to getting one.


Thanks again Sal. I appreciate the fast response:thumbup:
 
Sal, my collaborator-in-crime, Sam Owens, and I haven't worked on knives this small yet. I learned about the prevalence of sexual assaults in theater from a friend here whose primary job is gathering intelligence, and confirmed the numbers with another friend who works for one of the largest defense contractors, and who works with health and safety metrics. My job is to send two-man teams- sometimes, just a single service member- out to isolated FOBs, so I am especially concerned with protecting my people, who are sent out without the additional safety of a larger team.

The smallest Sam's built so far is this. We both appreciate the problem of making a small, light knife that is easy to use instinctively, without losing control. I'd like to get two models built, with and without the finger loop, and see if they can meet these opposing needs. <shrug> I certainly wouldn't mind having an FB14P in H1, I would just like to see if we could do even better.

John
 
Hi John,

I'll look forward to seeing what you and Sam come up with. I'll also look into current Swick status. I think the Swick 2 handle with a 2"-2.5" warncliffe might work. In our experience, a thin round handle is easiliy twisted (rotated) when used hard.

I'm not a big fan of neckers, but we'll do anything for our troops safety.


sal
 
Has everyone forgotten about the totally excellent Street Beat?
Spectre, check out Hideaway Knife, or HAK...it might be just what youre looking for :D
and I wouldnt worry about rust...infection just makes a self defense knifes job more effective :)
 
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Troops go to the shower in their PTs. And shower naked- the rest of the time, there are certainly existing Spyderco designs that would work. :)

Sal, thanks. Sam and I have settled on 2 designs. Next come the models and testing. :D

John
 
Sal, I think the SWICKs are a little too much knife. Part of my thinking with wanting H1 is a knife that will ALWAYS be on the user. I can have a model to you before end of February, if you want to see it. I do agree with your caution with a neck knife~ goal is ultra light, here.

Edited to add: FB14P is a lot closer, weight-wise, than P2.

Just a ouple more thoughts. I have a few neckers and IMHO weight and size are both important factors in whether the knife will be carried. The Swick is 1.4 oz. and a kydex neck sheath would not add much weight. You get a 2 1/8" blade, and I don't think you'd want to go much shorter than that. Overall length is approximately 5 1/2". Now let's compare a couple of other knives.

1. Swick - 2.125" blade, OAL 5.563", 1.4 oz.
2. A.G. Russell Hunter Scalpel - 2.25" blade, OAL 4.75", 0.5 oz. It is a very lightweight knife, so it is comfortable to carry, but is so tiny that I would not trust it in the situation you describe. For me, I can only get two fingers on the tiny handle.
3. A.G. Russell Woodswalker - 2 3/8" blade, OAL 6 1/8", 1.2 oz. Fairly lightweight. Handle is a 3 1/2 finger grip for me, but is skinnier than I would prefer to the situation described. For shower self-defense, I say something shorter overall with, say, a three-finger grip and a handle designed for good retention when wet would be good.
4. Old-style Benchmade Tether - 2" blade, OAL 5 5/8", traction coated skeletonized handle, weight unknown. For me this is a great necker. The blade is long enough, the knife is light enough for sustained carry, and the coating on the handle makes retention good, although as Sal mentioned, a hole you could stick your finger through would be even better. The current Tether, which Benchmade sells under the Harley Davidson label, look to be almost exactly the same size, but has some design changes. The old design had a thumb ramp with some jimping and does a great job of keeping the knife in the same position The weight on the new design is listed at 1.6 oz. For me that with the finger hole would be pretty close to ideal, and it is coincidentally the same length as the Swick. Any shorter than that would be too hard for me to keep ahold of.
5. ESEE Izula - 2.75" blade, OAL 6.25", 2.00 oz. It's the biggest necker I like to wear, but I think it is bigger than you need and you would want a different sheath.
6. Becker BK-11 - 3.25" blade, OAL 6.88", 2.50 oz. I had one and sold it because it was too large and a bit too heavy for me to wear comfortably for extended periods of time.
7. Orion K2 Backpacker - 3" blade, OAL 6 7/8", weight unknown, but IIRC it's slightly lighter than the BK-11. It's a nice knife, but I think it is too big and too heavy for what you have in mind.
8. HAK (Hideaway knife) - I had one a long time ago, but sold it. It would have been a good knife for what you are describing, but there were different size handle openings and you had to measure your index and middle fingers around the knuckles and order the appropriate size. I think for you project a generic handle in a one-size-fits all knife would be a good thing to consider.

Conclusions? First of all, it's your project and your safety, so you and the folks there are the ones who need to be satisfied. However, based on the neck knives I own or have owned, the Swick seems ideal or very close to it. Since you are thinking self-defense, you might want to consider having it done in a full-serrated edge so that sharpness will be less of a concern.

Good luck!
 
Good stuff to think about, I agree. I was given a Hunter's Scalpel last time I was in theater, and while it's a neat little knife, like you, I couldn't get a decent grip on it. I think we come to pretty similar conclusions about most of the blades you mention, though I'm not familiar with the Tether.

Our "ringed"/Perrin hole model version will have to be made in G10, due to equipment constraints. That should at least let us know if a steel version is worth pursuing.

It's really a shame that it's not just a simple as dropping an H1 Jester blade onto a mildly modified nonfolding Dragonfly handle shape!
 
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I really hope Spyderco does a small, lightweight stainless steel neckknife with a finger hole! A downsized swick would be awesome. I love my Spot but its too big to have at all times :(
 
Hi Forcedestrike,

How would you downsize a "Swick" and still keep it functional?

sal
 
3 finger grip with 1 of them being through the finger hole, then attach a lanyard and your done!

I would want a BD1 (or other inexpensive steel) everyday carry LaGriffe alternative (better ergoes, jimping & no chisel grind).

I can do a quick sketch if you want?

EDIT: I have a spot not a swick but I also find the swick to be slightly too bulky for everyday carry around ones neck.

Hi Forcedestrike,

How would you downsize a "Swick" and still keep it functional?

sal
 
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